Dumping our SUV going back to a minivan
05-26-2007, 11:51 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
Dumping our SUV going back to a minivan
We are thinking of getting out of our Buick Rainier with all its luxury and wonderful V8. It just has so little utilitarian value to me, that I yearn for my minivan days of old!
We get 16-21 REAL MPG from this Trailblazer on steroids. The V8 pushes its six thousand pounds just fine with its AWD. So it is not as bad on gas as it should be.
But...
I constantly am frustrated by NOT having enough space for stuff and for work materials ( cases of books, real long mounted panoramic photos, etc ), moving a bike ( I could get a bike rack, I know ), moving funriture and more. All these things I did just fine with our old GMC Safari AWD and prior to that the Plymouth grand Voyager.
I thought we could get by with the SUV, but after two years, I am frustrated too often. To us SUVs are neither fish nor fowl , not econobox commuter cars ( Or even a cool compromise like the HHR ), nor a big enough people and goods hauler.
Still it is a great car for what it does, but exactly what is does is not produce the wider utility use I really seem to value. Ah well, live and learn...
Speaking of learning, Whan researching these mini vans ( Our last purchase of one was in 1998, so we are a little out of the loop ), I found the domestic market to be pretty much kaput except for Chrysler.
GMC and Chevy stopped making any minivans with real room in them. The Uplander is almost a crossover vehicle since it is so small. Heck, I may as well coin a name here, I'll call it a CROSSDRESSER vehile!
Ford/Mercury gave up minivans. Buick has the overpriced, ergonomically challenged, way to small Terraza. Etc. These domestics have left the building in this arena. They are counting on consumers to flock to the crossovers. I do like the Arcadia and Enclave, but they are to small for my purpose at hand.
Chrysler is trying and man is the new 08 Caravan line looking pretty decent!
For total weirdness check out this one:
http://www.cartv.com/content/shared/...le_id_int/2447
Looks like the inside of a retiree's camper!
For me the trouble with Chrysler begins and ends with their transmissions.
Well,Ok a lot of Chrylers also handle like wheelbarrows, but that's another thread!
We got our voyager with 30K miles on it and it needed another tranny at 70K. When relacing it, the dealer noticed it already had been replaced once! So we were on our third tranny at 70K!
At 85 K we needed still another tranny
Sold it at 200K with that tranny......The guy who bought it needed two during its next 50K!. Plus he went through two more engines. So that one Voyager went through three engines and six trannies that I know of..........
So now the newer ones SHOULD be better, but I still see in forums a lot of folks on their second and third trannies with these Chryslers.
I do not trust them....
So all that said, I guess I will be an obediant American and buy a ferin' job.
You know a Toyota or a Honda ).
Don't want to, but for me , the field is empty except for these. Mazda, and Nissan need not apply. The Hyundai Entourage is interesting, but I'd wait as it is a dressed up Kia, and who knows what that really means.
Yes, they have problems also, but for some inexplicable reason, they have much better resale value, so we could bail and NOT lose our shirts like we will on the Buick ( and I LOVE BUICKS! ). Our Buick is LOADED with all the exras and extra-extras. Its inflated MRSP was 45K. Two and a half years later it has a retail of around 16K and a wholesale way below that. I'm glad we paid arounf thirty for it, but it is really not worth any more than a used trsailblazer, so paying for the extras did not pay off ( Remote starter, 3M tape protector, extended warentee out to 90K )
I've been doing a lot of internet research and going to dealers as well.
Since we now have a Katy , seven year old best-daughter-in-the-world ( You know the type
) Safety is paramount, so I kinda likeall these airbage on the side and such. That is one reason we got the HHR , safety. Our SUV ( Somewhat Unsafe vehicle ) also has the extra airbags and decent crash tests.
The Toyo Sienna and Honda Odyssey rate right high with safety. The Hoda even has a rollover sensor which I belive deploys the airbags if it detects a rollover. Now that could be good OR bad, but I guess its on the right track in thinking safety.
A GREAT feature I like on these newer vans is the backup camera video feed coming through the nav screen! Way cool. Get this and I may not run over Rusy Kitty or crush a bike which as we know is the suburban auto rite of passage!
These fancy vans are asking for gobs'o cash too. Prices have , well, gone up since I last looked at minivans. But it is nice to see the trickle over effect of all this SUV luxury stuff going into the vans.
Some of it is even safety minded .
My favorite mini that I owned was the safari since it was AWD and NEVER really had any problems with handling. It did have that tranny problem too like the Chrysler, I changed it at 70K..............
Hmm, a theme here.....?
I will likely NOT be as demanding on the next mini as I have been on the past ones. I do a lot less conventioning these days. Loading up the car with a ton and a half of paper and fixtures definitly adds to the wear. I could move three tons in tow with my Buick if I wanted to tow a trailer full of stuff to a convention. That may be an idea...........hmmm..........
Lately for the few conventions I sell at, we rent a cube van, bring six droogies and two extra cars and go to town. I used to crowd four droogs and my self in the safari with all the stuff, But heck, if ya sell enough stuff you can by another tranny
But I digress...
So even though I have never purchased a non-domsetic labled car ( I did own a Vibe for a real shot time, traded it for the HHR ), I guess I have no choice in the minvan circle but to go "foreign".
Today I'm leaning Honda Odyessy, Yesterday Toyota Sienna. The Honda folks are holding one for us now........
Both cars have decent active forums with great folks and trolls ( Nothing changes , eh? ).
Just wondering what everyone's experiences are with minivans? I know some folks just dread them and fear some how it removes masculinity But in reality these cars are just serving a need like any other, so there's no need to be afraid...............
We get 16-21 REAL MPG from this Trailblazer on steroids. The V8 pushes its six thousand pounds just fine with its AWD. So it is not as bad on gas as it should be.
But...
I constantly am frustrated by NOT having enough space for stuff and for work materials ( cases of books, real long mounted panoramic photos, etc ), moving a bike ( I could get a bike rack, I know ), moving funriture and more. All these things I did just fine with our old GMC Safari AWD and prior to that the Plymouth grand Voyager.
I thought we could get by with the SUV, but after two years, I am frustrated too often. To us SUVs are neither fish nor fowl , not econobox commuter cars ( Or even a cool compromise like the HHR ), nor a big enough people and goods hauler.
Still it is a great car for what it does, but exactly what is does is not produce the wider utility use I really seem to value. Ah well, live and learn...
Speaking of learning, Whan researching these mini vans ( Our last purchase of one was in 1998, so we are a little out of the loop ), I found the domestic market to be pretty much kaput except for Chrysler.
GMC and Chevy stopped making any minivans with real room in them. The Uplander is almost a crossover vehicle since it is so small. Heck, I may as well coin a name here, I'll call it a CROSSDRESSER vehile!
Ford/Mercury gave up minivans. Buick has the overpriced, ergonomically challenged, way to small Terraza. Etc. These domestics have left the building in this arena. They are counting on consumers to flock to the crossovers. I do like the Arcadia and Enclave, but they are to small for my purpose at hand.
Chrysler is trying and man is the new 08 Caravan line looking pretty decent!
For total weirdness check out this one:
http://www.cartv.com/content/shared/...le_id_int/2447
Looks like the inside of a retiree's camper!
For me the trouble with Chrysler begins and ends with their transmissions.
Well,Ok a lot of Chrylers also handle like wheelbarrows, but that's another thread!
We got our voyager with 30K miles on it and it needed another tranny at 70K. When relacing it, the dealer noticed it already had been replaced once! So we were on our third tranny at 70K!
At 85 K we needed still another tranny
Sold it at 200K with that tranny......The guy who bought it needed two during its next 50K!. Plus he went through two more engines. So that one Voyager went through three engines and six trannies that I know of..........
So now the newer ones SHOULD be better, but I still see in forums a lot of folks on their second and third trannies with these Chryslers.
I do not trust them....
So all that said, I guess I will be an obediant American and buy a ferin' job.
You know a Toyota or a Honda ). Don't want to, but for me , the field is empty except for these. Mazda, and Nissan need not apply. The Hyundai Entourage is interesting, but I'd wait as it is a dressed up Kia, and who knows what that really means.
Yes, they have problems also, but for some inexplicable reason, they have much better resale value, so we could bail and NOT lose our shirts like we will on the Buick ( and I LOVE BUICKS! ). Our Buick is LOADED with all the exras and extra-extras. Its inflated MRSP was 45K. Two and a half years later it has a retail of around 16K and a wholesale way below that. I'm glad we paid arounf thirty for it, but it is really not worth any more than a used trsailblazer, so paying for the extras did not pay off ( Remote starter, 3M tape protector, extended warentee out to 90K )
I've been doing a lot of internet research and going to dealers as well.
Since we now have a Katy , seven year old best-daughter-in-the-world ( You know the type
) Safety is paramount, so I kinda likeall these airbage on the side and such. That is one reason we got the HHR , safety. Our SUV ( Somewhat Unsafe vehicle ) also has the extra airbags and decent crash tests.The Toyo Sienna and Honda Odyssey rate right high with safety. The Hoda even has a rollover sensor which I belive deploys the airbags if it detects a rollover. Now that could be good OR bad, but I guess its on the right track in thinking safety.
A GREAT feature I like on these newer vans is the backup camera video feed coming through the nav screen! Way cool. Get this and I may not run over Rusy Kitty or crush a bike which as we know is the suburban auto rite of passage!
These fancy vans are asking for gobs'o cash too.
Prices have , well, gone up since I last looked at minivans. But it is nice to see the trickle over effect of all this SUV luxury stuff going into the vans. Some of it is even safety minded .My favorite mini that I owned was the safari since it was AWD and NEVER really had any problems with handling. It did have that tranny problem too like the Chrysler, I changed it at 70K..............
Hmm, a theme here.....?
I will likely NOT be as demanding on the next mini as I have been on the past ones. I do a lot less conventioning these days. Loading up the car with a ton and a half of paper and fixtures definitly adds to the wear. I could move three tons in tow with my Buick if I wanted to tow a trailer full of stuff to a convention. That may be an idea...........hmmm..........
Lately for the few conventions I sell at, we rent a cube van, bring six droogies and two extra cars and go to town. I used to crowd four droogs and my self in the safari with all the stuff, But heck, if ya sell enough stuff you can by another tranny
But I digress...
So even though I have never purchased a non-domsetic labled car ( I did own a Vibe for a real shot time, traded it for the HHR ), I guess I have no choice in the minvan circle but to go "foreign".
Today I'm leaning Honda Odyessy, Yesterday Toyota Sienna. The Honda folks are holding one for us now........
Both cars have decent active forums with great folks and trolls ( Nothing changes , eh? ).
Just wondering what everyone's experiences are with minivans? I know some folks just dread them and fear some how it removes masculinity
But in reality these cars are just serving a need like any other, so there's no need to be afraid...............
05-27-2007, 01:51 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-30-2006
Location: Maryland Heights, MO
Posts: 9,149
We had a 2001 Voyager that we gave to my Mom. Great to drive. Very reliable though we didn't have it but a couple years. MPG's killed it for us. My driver and getting 17 on a good day was killing us. It's the reason we got the HHR.
Good hunting.
Good hunting.
05-27-2007, 06:21 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-20-2006
Location: Hillsdale, Michigan
Posts: 21,640
Parents just got rid of a 2003 Town & Country and got a new 2006 Grand Caravan with Stow N Go last year. No problems with either and they love them both. The 2008's have the table option with swivel chairs but I don't believe you can get that and the Stow N Go together. The Hyundai Entourage is definately an interesting option and with the warranty might not be a bad choice! Good luck in your quest
05-27-2007, 10:02 AM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
Yeah, the MPGs could be better on the current lineup of minivans. But they all have larger stronger engines than they had in their early days. My friend used to move stone in a shortbed chrysler mini with a four banger. It worked fine for him but was real slow and under powered for the job. He did blow the tranyy of course..........
I am thinking about the 2008 Chryslers, but still feel stung from the depreciation of my Buick. The New Chryler will go upside down on any loan I take out MUCH quicker than if I get a Foriegn job. Just the facts. I don't like them, but that is the fact.
Domestics devalue way too fast. How can we turn this around?
I don't like being upside down on a car because when the kid down the street totals your ride as they ram into it learning to drive , the insurance company will only pay you what the book says, and not what you owe......unless you pay more for the newer "Upside down loan insurance".
I suppose Chrylser has worked out its tranny problems by now..........they are packing a brand new six speed on the new ones if so ordered.
I am thinking about the 2008 Chryslers, but still feel stung from the depreciation of my Buick. The New Chryler will go upside down on any loan I take out MUCH quicker than if I get a Foriegn job. Just the facts. I don't like them, but that is the fact.
Domestics devalue way too fast. How can we turn this around?
I don't like being upside down on a car because when the kid down the street totals your ride as they ram into it learning to drive
, the insurance company will only pay you what the book says, and not what you owe......unless you pay more for the newer "Upside down loan insurance".I suppose Chrylser has worked out its tranny problems by now..........they are packing a brand new six speed on the new ones if so ordered.
05-27-2007, 10:02 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-21-2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,100
Robert
We have Mini Vans and Grand Caravans at work as Admin Police vehicles, we use them every day since 911, we take our VIP's around in them for the Loco areas and we use our Tahoe's for longer trips. The One thing that I like about the Vans is that they are the perfect vehicle to get in and out of if you over 45 because you are not getting down into a vehicle, If you know what I mean. They are both a Great Vehicle, Good Luck. We use more fuel because they are run by E85 fuel and the Vans use this fuel much faster because it is burning much cleaner into the air.
Rudy (Z-Man)
We have Mini Vans and Grand Caravans at work as Admin Police vehicles, we use them every day since 911, we take our VIP's around in them for the Loco areas and we use our Tahoe's for longer trips. The One thing that I like about the Vans is that they are the perfect vehicle to get in and out of if you over 45 because you are not getting down into a vehicle, If you know what I mean. They are both a Great Vehicle, Good Luck. We use more fuel because they are run by E85 fuel and the Vans use this fuel much faster because it is burning much cleaner into the air.
Rudy (Z-Man)
05-27-2007, 04:54 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-21-2006
Location: Ft Walton Bch FL
Posts: 1,708
I've had my Ford Windstar for 9 years and it's served me well. I've hauled bags of rock, sand, and wood chips. I can fit a 4'x8' piece of lumber in the back with the seats down and back door closed. I brought home every new cabinet installed in my kitchen in this van. It also traveled well, even with two kayaks on top.
Now that it's aging quickly, the power windows and door locks are starting to fail, it needs new speakers, and the slider won't open from the outside. But, that engine sounds as good as the day I pulled it off the lot. And yes, I love how easy it is to get in and out of.
I still like my HHR better!
Now that it's aging quickly, the power windows and door locks are starting to fail, it needs new speakers, and the slider won't open from the outside. But, that engine sounds as good as the day I pulled it off the lot. And yes, I love how easy it is to get in and out of.
I still like my HHR better!
05-28-2007, 08:33 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-26-2006
Location: Soon to be Longview, Texas
Posts: 903
I myself would neverneverevereverEVER buy a minivan. I agree with the guys in that Burger King commercial when they dump that Voyager off the overpass.
For your purposes, though ... if you're using it primarily for hauling cargo, and also need fuel efficiency, my thought would be to do some research on one more domestic van, the Dodge Sprinter. They do come passenger-capable (I've seen several around like this), are reasonable in safety, and additionally have probably the most fuel-efficient engine you can find in a van (5-cylinder diesel of Freightliner origin). Besides that, I kinda think they look a little cooler than the average minivan.
For your purposes, though ... if you're using it primarily for hauling cargo, and also need fuel efficiency, my thought would be to do some research on one more domestic van, the Dodge Sprinter. They do come passenger-capable (I've seen several around like this), are reasonable in safety, and additionally have probably the most fuel-efficient engine you can find in a van (5-cylinder diesel of Freightliner origin). Besides that, I kinda think they look a little cooler than the average minivan.
05-28-2007, 09:34 AM
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
I myself would neverneverevereverEVER buy a minivan. I agree with the guys in that Burger King commercial when they dump that Voyager off the overpass.
For your purposes, though ... if you're using it primarily for hauling cargo, and also need fuel efficiency, my thought would be to do some research on one more domestic van, the Dodge Sprinter. They do come passenger-capable (I've seen several around like this), are reasonable in safety, and additionally have probably the most fuel-efficient engine you can find in a van (5-cylinder diesel of Freightliner origin). Besides that, I kinda think they look a little cooler than the average minivan.
For your purposes, though ... if you're using it primarily for hauling cargo, and also need fuel efficiency, my thought would be to do some research on one more domestic van, the Dodge Sprinter. They do come passenger-capable (I've seen several around like this), are reasonable in safety, and additionally have probably the most fuel-efficient engine you can find in a van (5-cylinder diesel of Freightliner origin). Besides that, I kinda think they look a little cooler than the average minivan.
I can understand, as I meet a lot of folks with those there thoughts
Thanks for the link to the Dodge Sprinter. Cool van. If I were just doing cargo it would be a contender. The high roof version would be out as I do a lot of shows in hotels with low ceiling parking garages, but a regular version would work for business.
However we are driving people most of the time and the ability to move something larger is paramount. My previous mini vans were the real answer so that's why I'm looking at them again. A regular sized van is just to much car for daily use and a real bear for my wife to parallel park when she would use it.
For my purposes an SUV is simply not working out as they do not have the hight to accommodate a typical retailer display case, cannot fit in a few 8' wire racks, etc.
Which leads me back to the minivans which, thankfully I have no qualms driving. My testosterone is not threatened by a mini van, but it is constricted by an SUV = to much of a compromise vehicle for our needs.
A full sized van like the Dodge Sprinter would be cool for occasional use, but not practical for a daily driver. Also, diesels give me migraines like you wouldn't believe
.Diesel fuel and I just don't get along. I stopped managing a service station due to this. I could almost bath in gas ( and did a few times by accident
) , but diesel fumes make me into a quivering pile of senility.That Dodge is a real cool vehicle though, seems like a better buy than some of those extended regular vans for hauling people comfortably.
I haven't seen the Burger King commercial you speak of, but it sounds funny!
In keeping with that theme, here ya go:
