*NEW* ZZP Intake Tube for the HHR SS
02-13-2012, 05:51 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-09-2011
Location: South Haven, MI
Posts: 372
hey joe,i'm not shooting your mod down,however,i could have sworn someone made an intake for our cars already and the dollar to hp ratio wasn't worth it. i think it made the same or a tad bit less than the stock box. you bring something interesting for debate though. on the stock lnf that ran 11.6, which car was that in?? cobalts will run faster than us due to the gear ratios are different,weight and better areo dynamics. also when you say stock,i can guess that means just bolt on parts with the stock turbo and internals. if it's the solstice,then rwd helps that out ALOT. again,not bashing your mod,if it works,go with it. i would like to see parts dynoed in the summer. if you can make power in the heat,then you know when it gets cooler it will work even better.
Fact is you really can't shoot down my mod, with corrections the intake tube itself still made 12whp. This is a formed piece of silicone, nothing elaborate just superior to the stock part. I admit more power is possible on the stock airbox over my Dejon pipe.
02-13-2012, 11:05 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-20-2009
Location: Hayward, Ca.
Posts: 1,058
Pudmunkie: The artical you're refering to, is mainly talking about a non-turbocharged engine. When I was refering about backpressure, on a turbo motor, I meant you can free up a lot of backpressure, but a little backpressure keeps the turbo from spooling up too fast, or at least that used to be'Back in the day".
Things may have changed, but back in 1975, I turboed a 2000cc Datsun P.U..
I got the turbo from Bob's Automotive in L.A., which later became BAE Turbos.
I got a new Garret turbo from Bob, and we fabbed up the intake and exhaust manifolds[since Tubros were still not the rage]. I had a drawthrough system, feed by a Holley 4bbl, carb, with alky/water injection.
After some testing,and dropping the ring lands out of 3 pistons[due to very high boost] found out the turbo was overboosting. Bob instructed me to regulate the backpressure, by using different mufflers, which we did. Cured the problem. Bob said you have to have some backpressure to keep the trubo from overboosting. Granted things may have now changed, but that was I was trying to point out about backpressure. You need a little.
That sucker ran like "Jack the Bear' in 75, boosting 17lbs.
Also had a 1990 AWD Eagle Talon[built by Archer Bros. Racing], that boosted 22 lbs. and ran low evelens on steet tires. "Moon"
Things may have changed, but back in 1975, I turboed a 2000cc Datsun P.U..
I got the turbo from Bob's Automotive in L.A., which later became BAE Turbos.
I got a new Garret turbo from Bob, and we fabbed up the intake and exhaust manifolds[since Tubros were still not the rage]. I had a drawthrough system, feed by a Holley 4bbl, carb, with alky/water injection.
After some testing,and dropping the ring lands out of 3 pistons[due to very high boost] found out the turbo was overboosting. Bob instructed me to regulate the backpressure, by using different mufflers, which we did. Cured the problem. Bob said you have to have some backpressure to keep the trubo from overboosting. Granted things may have now changed, but that was I was trying to point out about backpressure. You need a little.
That sucker ran like "Jack the Bear' in 75, boosting 17lbs.
Also had a 1990 AWD Eagle Talon[built by Archer Bros. Racing], that boosted 22 lbs. and ran low evelens on steet tires. "Moon"
02-14-2012, 05:52 PM
#23
Member
Join Date: 08-31-2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 28
Interesting fleet of vehicles you've had!
From the article listed:
Also, I don't understand how increasing your back pressure saved your rings. detonation kills ring lands.
Problem: Too much boost destroying ringlands; decrease boost, ensure proper AFR
Problem: Spooling too soon (not really sure its a problem...
); size the turbo better, play with the wastegate.
I don't want to be rude, because I admire that you keep at it, but I hear stuff like this all the time out of 'older' auto enthusiasts. Lots of misconceptions from back in the day, and there have been a LOT of advances since those times.
You're entitled to your opinions though! Keep doing what you like.
From the article listed:
These range from turbocharged Subaru Legacy RS flat fours to full-house traditional pushrod V8s. In
not one case has he found any improvement in any engine performance parameter with increased
exhaust backpressure.
not one case has he found any improvement in any engine performance parameter with increased
exhaust backpressure.
Problem: Too much boost destroying ringlands; decrease boost, ensure proper AFR
Problem: Spooling too soon (not really sure its a problem...
); size the turbo better, play with the wastegate.I don't want to be rude, because I admire that you keep at it, but I hear stuff like this all the time out of 'older' auto enthusiasts. Lots of misconceptions from back in the day, and there have been a LOT of advances since those times.
You're entitled to your opinions though! Keep doing what you like.
Last edited by Pudmunkie; 02-14-2012 at 07:09 PM.
02-14-2012, 09:05 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-20-2009
Location: Hayward, Ca.
Posts: 1,058
Pudmunkie: I'll try to refain from bringing up stuff, from the old days, that only confuses, some that have never been there. Those misconseptions, were a learning experience, that is why we now have ECU's, knock senors, ect. to cover your rear, when you play. Back then it was trial and error, and sometimes very expensive errors.
It's a whole new deal now, and I still learn something from the new tech. nowdays. I just read between the lines, and not take just any opinion, until I see if it works and is not just B.S.. Lots of info out there, some good and some not. I perfer to wait and see, if something truly works or not, instead of just jumping on it, before I use it. Opinions are like anal orfices, everyone has one.
I see talk of bigger turbos, 400+ H.P., but i have yet to see hard data, or pictures posted. I'm sure a few have stepped over the line, and broke parts, and did'nt want to share the info. We'll see what develops in the future.
I'll also try to not be "The older I get, the faster I went". "Moon"
It's a whole new deal now, and I still learn something from the new tech. nowdays. I just read between the lines, and not take just any opinion, until I see if it works and is not just B.S.. Lots of info out there, some good and some not. I perfer to wait and see, if something truly works or not, instead of just jumping on it, before I use it. Opinions are like anal orfices, everyone has one.
I see talk of bigger turbos, 400+ H.P., but i have yet to see hard data, or pictures posted. I'm sure a few have stepped over the line, and broke parts, and did'nt want to share the info. We'll see what develops in the future.
I'll also try to not be "The older I get, the faster I went". "Moon"
02-15-2012, 10:09 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-09-2011
Location: South Haven, MI
Posts: 372
moonsign: I apologize if you found any of my responses offensive.
You spoke of misrepresentation of parts along with false gains and with ZZP I feel touchy as I'm a proud supporter of them and what they do for this platform as a vendor.
The guy's whom are employed there live these cars, this isn't a corporation like Injen/AEM/Magnaflow throwing inflated gains out there for profit's sake.
With the intake tube on my HHR they went out of their way to modify the Cobalt version to work, paid me with gains from it, and didn't charge me a dime for that extra hour spent just fitting it, the actual product, nor dyno time. They did such for R&D purposes and have even invited me back to test-fit a production piece.
I as a customer would like to pay them back by bringing them sales from this community, but if you feel I'm fabbing up a story to do such, you couldn't be more wrong. This benefit's them as a small local business, and you as a customer that a company is out there fabricating parts for this limited platform. There are plenty more platforms out there with a wider and more profitable market in which ZZP could tend to, but they are not.
My point is, be glad these guys are producing parts for us, and if you'd like a little gain with their intake tube throw them a couple dollars so they continue doing such
. If not, no hard feelings.
I enjoy the fact that I've spent money with a vendor that I will run into @ the dragstrip on Saturday's running 9 second 1/4 miles in a full-bodied Cobalt
.
You spoke of misrepresentation of parts along with false gains and with ZZP I feel touchy as I'm a proud supporter of them and what they do for this platform as a vendor.
The guy's whom are employed there live these cars, this isn't a corporation like Injen/AEM/Magnaflow throwing inflated gains out there for profit's sake.
With the intake tube on my HHR they went out of their way to modify the Cobalt version to work, paid me with gains from it, and didn't charge me a dime for that extra hour spent just fitting it, the actual product, nor dyno time. They did such for R&D purposes and have even invited me back to test-fit a production piece.
I as a customer would like to pay them back by bringing them sales from this community, but if you feel I'm fabbing up a story to do such, you couldn't be more wrong. This benefit's them as a small local business, and you as a customer that a company is out there fabricating parts for this limited platform. There are plenty more platforms out there with a wider and more profitable market in which ZZP could tend to, but they are not.
My point is, be glad these guys are producing parts for us, and if you'd like a little gain with their intake tube throw them a couple dollars so they continue doing such
. If not, no hard feelings.I enjoy the fact that I've spent money with a vendor that I will run into @ the dragstrip on Saturday's running 9 second 1/4 miles in a full-bodied Cobalt
.
02-15-2012, 01:14 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-20-2009
Location: Hayward, Ca.
Posts: 1,058
I was'nt trying to flame ZZP, only meant that there are some manufactures out there that tend to strech the facts, to sell product, product that sometimes don't work as advertised. Probably should have stated that better. I also mentioned that some of the people modding their cars, tend to be follow the leader[money see-monkey do]. Just because a few say it's the hot setup, they buy it, and rant and rave that it works much better than anything else. I was'nt poining fingers, just stating a observation.
I'll work on my wording my thoughts better in the future[I hope]. "Moon"
I'll work on my wording my thoughts better in the future[I hope]. "Moon"
10-31-2012, 02:39 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-20-2011
Location: Cape Cod, MA
Posts: 120
Moon-
A CAI is a complete waste on a turbo car. Hence why you see seriously high powered turbo cars, running a filter right off the turbo. The cold air from the intake, is super heated by the turbo immediately. While pulling air from the charge pipes for "cooling". I have had a CAI on a turbo car and lost spool time and throttle response, and felt no gains through the rpm range, definitely felt sluggish from a stop though.
Joe-
12 hp from a intake tube is KICKASS! good to know in the future.
A CAI is a complete waste on a turbo car. Hence why you see seriously high powered turbo cars, running a filter right off the turbo. The cold air from the intake, is super heated by the turbo immediately. While pulling air from the charge pipes for "cooling". I have had a CAI on a turbo car and lost spool time and throttle response, and felt no gains through the rpm range, definitely felt sluggish from a stop though.
Joe-
12 hp from a intake tube is KICKASS! good to know in the future.
10-31-2012, 03:30 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-18-2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 560
i have the intake and love it, instant gains, you just have to take off the shroud around the condenser and radiator, and it blows all that cool outside air right to the filter, ZZP should mention this on their site, it made a big difference
11-12-2012, 11:31 AM
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-19-2012
Location: North Glendale, AZ
Posts: 70
Am I correct that this is the pipe that runs from the Air Box/air inlet to the Turbo and the reason it is not on their web site is because it is still in R&D? Yes I saw the one for the Colbalt.
Any idea on when it is going to be available for the HHR SS? If I can get 12 HP from this bolt on part I WANT IT.
Any idea on when it is going to be available for the HHR SS? If I can get 12 HP from this bolt on part I WANT IT.
11-12-2012, 12:13 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-04-2010
Location: Delaware
Posts: 724