2.4l acceleration question....
#23
One of these days I am going to bring the car to the track and run it along with my trusty Escort so we can see if it is accurate or not. But I have read about people that did that and said it was. I question the HP but that is what it calculated base on the weight (I plugged in 3200 pounds).
Say what you will, but every Chevy mechanic that drove my car was impressed and said that it was MUCH quicker than the stock ones they drive on a regular basis. And I dont buy that the intake and exhaust lose HP. Extensive testing was done years ago by our old friend SoCal. While you may say he was biased with the CGS since he sold them, he did not take on the IMCO line for a long time, yet recommeded them (even over systems that he sold).
Common sense should be obvious here-if the intake is smoother with less restriction, it has to help. As for the air being hot-you have to be kidding. The factory inlet is a tiny opening that aims at the little hole in the fenderwell. Is it sealed to prevent any engine heat from getting in? In addition, that big box sits right on top of the hot engine. I am sure you know what happens when you put a big container, like a pot of water, on a hot surface, like a stove top. What ever is in side cooks. So what do you think is happening to that nice cool air coming from the small hole in the fender? Guess it is not so cool anymore. Besides, if that much cold air is actually coming through the fender hole, then it will go right into the new air filter since it is directly in front of it. And I would prefer a higher volume of warm air than a small amount of slightly cooler air. And with the CGS, it goes directly into the engine. Plus, once you are moving, outside air is circulating around the engine. As for the exhaust, two comments. If the sound is louder, then there must be less restriction. And, in my case with the Y pipe leading to another collector, when it is open or has a plate on it with holes, then it certainly is less restrictive than the factory muffler. But factory muffler is very heavy. Since it is stainless steel, the weight must be from a lot of crap inside of it. The baffles are what reduce the sound, add weight, and slow the flow of exhaust down. If the IMCO is louder, which it is, then the exhaust must have less restriction.
Regarding the Escort G Timer, I believe they stopped selling them. If I recall, they did not manufacture them. But there are other companies that sell similar products. I think the reason they had the big sale when I got mine is that they were selling out their stock.
Say what you will, but every Chevy mechanic that drove my car was impressed and said that it was MUCH quicker than the stock ones they drive on a regular basis. And I dont buy that the intake and exhaust lose HP. Extensive testing was done years ago by our old friend SoCal. While you may say he was biased with the CGS since he sold them, he did not take on the IMCO line for a long time, yet recommeded them (even over systems that he sold).
Common sense should be obvious here-if the intake is smoother with less restriction, it has to help. As for the air being hot-you have to be kidding. The factory inlet is a tiny opening that aims at the little hole in the fenderwell. Is it sealed to prevent any engine heat from getting in? In addition, that big box sits right on top of the hot engine. I am sure you know what happens when you put a big container, like a pot of water, on a hot surface, like a stove top. What ever is in side cooks. So what do you think is happening to that nice cool air coming from the small hole in the fender? Guess it is not so cool anymore. Besides, if that much cold air is actually coming through the fender hole, then it will go right into the new air filter since it is directly in front of it. And I would prefer a higher volume of warm air than a small amount of slightly cooler air. And with the CGS, it goes directly into the engine. Plus, once you are moving, outside air is circulating around the engine. As for the exhaust, two comments. If the sound is louder, then there must be less restriction. And, in my case with the Y pipe leading to another collector, when it is open or has a plate on it with holes, then it certainly is less restrictive than the factory muffler. But factory muffler is very heavy. Since it is stainless steel, the weight must be from a lot of crap inside of it. The baffles are what reduce the sound, add weight, and slow the flow of exhaust down. If the IMCO is louder, which it is, then the exhaust must have less restriction.
Regarding the Escort G Timer, I believe they stopped selling them. If I recall, they did not manufacture them. But there are other companies that sell similar products. I think the reason they had the big sale when I got mine is that they were selling out their stock.
Last edited by Lee3333; 09-14-2008 at 09:28 AM.
#24
Senior Member
Joined: 01-13-2006
Posts: 2,999
From: Superior, WI - Over the Hill Warranty Club member
I installed my Trifecta tune in the Deer Slayer today. Did some starts and the delayed timing is gone now, I have a 2.4 Auto. The RPM's went higher than 6,000. The transmission shifts quicker. Kicking into passing gear at 60 Is like go, go, gone.
The tune I was going for was better mileage and a boost for towing my ATV and trailer that weighs 780 lbs.
My HHR is stock as far as intake and exhaust. I filled my tank with gas and will see how the mileage does when I fill again next week. A 55 mph highway drive today before and after the tune on a level stretch bumped the MPG up 2.8 mpg. I will post the average next week. My pre-tune average is 27.6 mpg, this is both highway/city, my round trip to work each day is 64 miles.
The tune I was going for was better mileage and a boost for towing my ATV and trailer that weighs 780 lbs.
My HHR is stock as far as intake and exhaust. I filled my tank with gas and will see how the mileage does when I fill again next week. A 55 mph highway drive today before and after the tune on a level stretch bumped the MPG up 2.8 mpg. I will post the average next week. My pre-tune average is 27.6 mpg, this is both highway/city, my round trip to work each day is 64 miles.
#25
Senior Member
Joined: 01-13-2006
Posts: 2,999
From: Superior, WI - Over the Hill Warranty Club member
The escort is not a programmer, It is a timer/monitor, no programming can be done with it.
and you can get them here..http://www.amazon.com/Escort-Passpor.../dp/B00012O7EM
and you can get them here..http://www.amazon.com/Escort-Passpor.../dp/B00012O7EM
#26
I checked the link just to see the price, and they are no longer available. But they did get great reviews, and many said that their quater mile accuracy was dead on. Makes me feel good about my mid 15 second prediction. Back in the 60's that would have been pretty impressive. Unfortunately, nowadays Nissan Maximas and Cadillac's all to 14 second's. And those 4 cylinder tuners can run in the 8's. In the day, ProStockers only did 9's. We have lost all perspective of speed. I remember when having a street car that did 12's mean adjusting the solid lifters every week, and changing the fouled plugs much more often.
#27
I heard the old timers say the same basic thing when the Olds, Cad and Chevy small block V8 took the glory away from the Ford Flat head V8 and again when a factory hotrods of the 60's (GTO, SS396, Mustang 427-428-429) blew away the best our home grown hot rodders could build. This is progress. I hope it never stops. Embrace it or get passed by.
#28
I understand what you are saying. It just is a little disturbing that todays youth dont understand what it means to work to get a fast car, or appreciate what concessions it used to take to be able to have a car that posted quick quater mile times. People today take it for granted. My 1977 Datsun 280 Z had a tremendous amount of suspension work, body lightening, some engine mods, etc and did mid 15 second times and 0-90 in 6.4 seconds. I was just reading a review of the new Maxima. Box stock right off the showroom floor it does sub 6 second 0-60 times.
I remember the pride I had playing with the jets in my Holley and trying out different power valves, cams for the acceleration pump, etc. My hands were always greasy, but that was kind of a badge that us back yard mechanics wore. Today, cars are too complicated for the average person to work on. And now all it takes is plugging in a computer chip to achieve all that we used to sweat to accomplish. I realize this is technology. the trouble is that all it takes is money now to make your car fast. Back in the day, we used to make fun of the people who had to bring their cars to speed shops and have somebody else modify it for them. Now it is a necessity.
This is why I am building my Jeep. It will be a simple carburated small block for cruising and drag racing. Nothing high tech. Hell, even drag racing has gone electronic. Black boxes are used that control everything. You simply step on the gas, and when the lights start their countdown you push a button and aim the car. With air shifters, you dont even have to throw the gears. And the fastest car doesnt even win when you are bracket racing. You just have to predict your time, like a guessing game. If you go to fast, you lose. Slower cars are actually more consistant, since there are less variables.
I remember the pride I had playing with the jets in my Holley and trying out different power valves, cams for the acceleration pump, etc. My hands were always greasy, but that was kind of a badge that us back yard mechanics wore. Today, cars are too complicated for the average person to work on. And now all it takes is plugging in a computer chip to achieve all that we used to sweat to accomplish. I realize this is technology. the trouble is that all it takes is money now to make your car fast. Back in the day, we used to make fun of the people who had to bring their cars to speed shops and have somebody else modify it for them. Now it is a necessity.
This is why I am building my Jeep. It will be a simple carburated small block for cruising and drag racing. Nothing high tech. Hell, even drag racing has gone electronic. Black boxes are used that control everything. You simply step on the gas, and when the lights start their countdown you push a button and aim the car. With air shifters, you dont even have to throw the gears. And the fastest car doesnt even win when you are bracket racing. You just have to predict your time, like a guessing game. If you go to fast, you lose. Slower cars are actually more consistant, since there are less variables.
#29
I installed my filter as it came in the box and never oiled it myself. And my problem began with the code coming on only when I did a burnout, and has progressed to the point where I get the code when just driving normally or sitting at a traffic light. Generally, though, it happens when I am accelerating. I recently replaced it with an oiless filter, cleaned my MAF, and still have the problem.
I hope my MAF was not permanently damaged. I want to try a friends to see if it solves the problem before buying a new one. My only other guess could be a change in airflow from the different intake tube that triggers the code.
I really prefer the way the CGS looks over the other systems. And I am really mystified as to why some people have this problem while others do not.
In carefully reading the service bulletin, I noticed that it included oil deposits on the hose. So, I will try removing the entire intake and cleaning the insides of it, as well as recleaning my MAF. Wish me luck...
I hope my MAF was not permanently damaged. I want to try a friends to see if it solves the problem before buying a new one. My only other guess could be a change in airflow from the different intake tube that triggers the code.
I really prefer the way the CGS looks over the other systems. And I am really mystified as to why some people have this problem while others do not.
In carefully reading the service bulletin, I noticed that it included oil deposits on the hose. So, I will try removing the entire intake and cleaning the insides of it, as well as recleaning my MAF. Wish me luck...
It would seem that us people in cold climates have a problem on our hands. In warm climates/seasons, the less-dense air doesn't screw up the MAF calibration too much. You will see that the engine is running a little lean but isn't exceeding tolerances. However, when the air cools (like in the fall), the cool, dense air is too much for the ECM to compensate for, and you start getting fault codes. I noticed that below 60 degrees was the worst for my engine, and often times I would get a code even when starting.
I used the HPT to recalibrate the MAF numbers and compensated for the new intake, and haven't had any problems since.
The dealer scolded me on the oil-type filter and referenced the bulletin that is posted here, however once I got my laptop plugged in a watched the data, I knew he was wrong. Yes, oil can screw up the MAF, however it can be cleaned if this happens. The bigger culprit with a new intake on the 2.4L is the calibration.
#30
Some food for thought... I installed my intake last spring and had no problems. Back in September all of the sudden I started getting lean codes and TC off problems. I bought a HPT setup and started looking at things to see what I could figure out.
It would seem that us people in cold climates have a problem on our hands. In warm climates/seasons, the less-dense air doesn't screw up the MAF calibration too much. You will see that the engine is running a little lean but isn't exceeding tolerances. However, when the air cools (like in the fall), the cool, dense air is too much for the ECM to compensate for, and you start getting fault codes. I noticed that below 60 degrees was the worst for my engine, and often times I would get a code even when starting.
I used the HPT to recalibrate the MAF numbers and compensated for the new intake, and haven't had any problems since.
The dealer scolded me on the oil-type filter and referenced the bulletin that is posted here, however once I got my laptop plugged in a watched the data, I knew he was wrong. Yes, oil can screw up the MAF, however it can be cleaned if this happens. The bigger culprit with a new intake on the 2.4L is the calibration.
It would seem that us people in cold climates have a problem on our hands. In warm climates/seasons, the less-dense air doesn't screw up the MAF calibration too much. You will see that the engine is running a little lean but isn't exceeding tolerances. However, when the air cools (like in the fall), the cool, dense air is too much for the ECM to compensate for, and you start getting fault codes. I noticed that below 60 degrees was the worst for my engine, and often times I would get a code even when starting.
I used the HPT to recalibrate the MAF numbers and compensated for the new intake, and haven't had any problems since.
The dealer scolded me on the oil-type filter and referenced the bulletin that is posted here, however once I got my laptop plugged in a watched the data, I knew he was wrong. Yes, oil can screw up the MAF, however it can be cleaned if this happens. The bigger culprit with a new intake on the 2.4L is the calibration.