laylowcustoms

I was watching a comercial the other day about GMs new cars beable to run on "alturnative fuels"
1) are they refering to E85? (ethanhol? I think)
2) are the HHRs compatiable?

1BadPig

1) Blended 85% Ethanol & 15% gasoline
2) No, don't ever put E85 in a none FFV vehicle... it will corrode your fuel system, i.e., hoses, fuel line, plastic parts.

Boss Hogg

My salesman told me that the cars were E-85 compatible, but after looking in the owners manual, as well as online, and I can't find any mention of this. I guess he was wrong.

dan-d

Nooooo, the HHR as of right now are not E-85 compatible. It will run on this fuel but it will ruin the rubber hoses and gaskets. These components have to be made of a synthetic to withstand this fuel. Keep in mind that although E-85 and M-85 are great alternative fuels (environmentally speaking, as well as the reliance on dino fuel) they will not produce as much energy or fuel mileage as regular gasoline. As a retired fleet manager for the federal government we spent a lot of time in research on these alt fuels. We were also one of the first big time users (and still are). If you drive a vehicle that IS compatible and the fueling infrastructure is available to you I think using it is the right thing to do.

BTW: Many of you may not know this, but the federal government is very committed to using alternative fuels. Almost every vehicle they buy will be an alternative fuel vehicle if it's available, they'll buy them even if the fuel infrastructure isn't available hoping the infrastructure will catch up at some point. It's like putting the cart in front of the horse, but at least the fleet will be in place and ready when this happens.

For those of you interested in using E-85, may I suggest going on line and search for GSA auto auctions in your area. This is a great place to buy your first alternative fuel vehicle since the government has so many. These vehicles usually sell for a lot less at auction than their regular gasoline counterpart, no one knows why, but they do. -Dan

MikeX

An alternative opinion on ethanol from our local car guy, Ed Wallace, on 570 AM. It may not be such a good idea:

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...x+page_insight

GDZHHR

While I think in the long run these fuels will be a good alternative there are a few reasons, at least for me that it isn't an alternative. I own a Chysler minivan than is setup to run on E-85. Never have though.

1. In my area, St. Louis, it now cost as much or more than gasoline.
2. It has very limited availability. 6 station in the metro area two of which are not even open to the public, one govt. and one military.
3. The mpg is worse than running gasoline, so that while I'll be saving fossil fuel, I'll be spending more money.

It's just not worth it to me until it becomes a savings. I am all for saving the environment, but I just can't finacially use this fuel.

Also many people think that driving hybrid cars will save them money. Even with tax breaks, the additional cost of the option will not be set off by fuel savings during the life of most cars, when you consider that most people will never keep the car long enough to realize the potential savings. Its also beginning to come out that the so-call extreme mpgs that these cars are supposed get are very unrealistic as the tests were done in ideal conditions for the type of system. Unless you drive in conditions which mean the majority of your driving is stop-n-go, you'll never get close to the manufacturer mpg ratings.

Just my

O6ChevyHHR

maybe next years model or future models will be.

zwede

From what I've read the fuel system on GM vehicles has been E85 compatible for almost 20 years. Running E85 in any GM vehicle will not damage/corrode the tank,lines etc. The problem is that E85 requires a much richer mixture. The flex-fuel vehicles have a sensor that tells the computer it is running E85 and the computer adds the extra fuel. Trying to run E85 in an HHR would turn on the service engine light and still run lean to where it could damage the engine.

E85 doesn't make sense it this point. Fuel consumption is much higher with E85 so even if it is a little less per gallon you end up spending much more. Worst of all is that it looks like it doesn't lessen our dependence on imported oil.

SoCalHHR

From the Manual:

...However, E85 (85% ethanol) and other fuels containing more than 10% ethanol must not be used in vehicles that were not designed for those fuels.

Notice: Your vehicle was not designed for fuel that contains methanol. Do not use fuel containing methanol. It can corrode metal parts in your fuel system and also damage the plastic and rubber parts. That damage would not be covered under your warranty.

*BTW - the HHR does contain the sensor that monitors post-burn mixture ratio - all OBD II compliant vehicles do. We found during our intake testing dyno runs that the HHR instantly compensates for added airflow via the computer. Even during 100mph full-throttle runs the HHR's air fuel ratio was decidedly rich. We are working on some methods to lean it out to increase the power.

zwede

Mike: Note the keyword "methanol". Totally different animal. The fuel system is ethanol compliant, not methanol.

Yes, the HHR has O2 sensors just like any other new car. It will report the lean mixture. Problem is the computer has a hard limit of 25% for compansation and that is not enough. The engine light comes from hitting the +25% limit.

Just reprogramming the computer to allow more than 25% addition will probably not work as the injectors go static (can't flow the required fuel).

A true flex-fuel vehicle has oversized (for gasoline) injectors that are appropriate for the increased flow needs of E85.

As for the added airflow, that is sensed by the MAF sensor, not the O2 sensor. You are correct that the MAF is instant.

Be careful with leaning it out. Going to a 13:1 WOT mixture will make more power but increases exhaust gas temperature. GM made WOT rich to protect the catalytic converter.