Experiment with bleeder holes
08-12-2013, 12:17 AM
#11
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Join Date: 11-19-2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 123
You can feel the heat coming out of the vents, monitor that temperature with an infrared thermometer, and use the same thermometer on the engine itself - say on the thermostat housing.
08-12-2013, 02:21 AM
#12
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Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,037
What would I do if the proposed 1/8" hole upset the computer? Well, if in my judgment the car was warming up fast enough, and assuming no untoward consequences, I'd probably get my jollies pissing off the computer as much as possible. I might go so far as install my own temperature gauge, use black electrical tape to block unwanted visual distractions, and hunt down any audible alarms with a pair of dikes.
Does anyone know HOW the computer decides if the engine is slow to warm up? I mean, consider an ambient temperature of -50 F v. 120 F. Or slow streets v. immediate highway speeds.
Does anyone know HOW the computer decides if the engine is slow to warm up? I mean, consider an ambient temperature of -50 F v. 120 F. Or slow streets v. immediate highway speeds.
After all - "I'd probably get my jollies pi$$ing off the computer as much as possible. I might go so far as install my own temperature gauge, use black electrical tape to block unwanted visual distractions, and hunt down any audible alarms with a pair of dikes".
08-12-2013, 07:38 AM
#13
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Join Date: 06-30-2010
Location: Kannapolis NC
Posts: 25,739
How the ECM determines whether the engine is warming correctly goes back to the alphabet soup of modules and sensors, but here goes....
"An Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor monitors the temperature of the coolant. This input is used by the Engine Control Module (ECM) for engine control and as an enabling criteria for some diagnosis.
The air flow coming into the engine is accumulated and used to determine if the vehicle has been driven within the conditions that would allow the engine coolant to heat up normally to the thermostat regulating temperature. If the coolant temperature does not increase normally or does not reach the regulating temperature of the thermostat, the diagnostics that use ECT as enabling criteria may not run when expected.
If the Engine Control Module (ECM) detects the calibrated amount of air flow and engine run time have been met, and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has not met the minimum thermostat regulating temperature, a diagnostic code will be set."
All that being said, my thoughts are if you do something that causes the engine to heat up faster than designed, or accounted for in the monitoring algorithms, you're likely to trigger a CEL and affect the change over point from Open Loop to Closed loop operation.
Rather than trying to improve on a system that has been pretty well thought out, just replace the thermostat with the correct replacement part.
If you are still lacking heat output, or feel that the heat output of the HVAC system is not up to snuff, look at the heater core for a possible restriction or clogging.
"An Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor monitors the temperature of the coolant. This input is used by the Engine Control Module (ECM) for engine control and as an enabling criteria for some diagnosis.
The air flow coming into the engine is accumulated and used to determine if the vehicle has been driven within the conditions that would allow the engine coolant to heat up normally to the thermostat regulating temperature. If the coolant temperature does not increase normally or does not reach the regulating temperature of the thermostat, the diagnostics that use ECT as enabling criteria may not run when expected.
If the Engine Control Module (ECM) detects the calibrated amount of air flow and engine run time have been met, and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has not met the minimum thermostat regulating temperature, a diagnostic code will be set."
All that being said, my thoughts are if you do something that causes the engine to heat up faster than designed, or accounted for in the monitoring algorithms, you're likely to trigger a CEL and affect the change over point from Open Loop to Closed loop operation.
Rather than trying to improve on a system that has been pretty well thought out, just replace the thermostat with the correct replacement part.
If you are still lacking heat output, or feel that the heat output of the HVAC system is not up to snuff, look at the heater core for a possible restriction or clogging.
08-12-2013, 07:46 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-06-2007
Location: Edison, NJ
Posts: 359
Ecotec engines need to warm up as fast as possible for maximum efficiency. If the engine does not achieve 180 degrees within a pre-programmed period of time, the air conditioning compressor is disabled, the analog temperature gauge goes to zero, the digital temp indication in the DIC is dashes, and the engine is running in open loop mode. A DTC is set and must be cleared.
Poking a hole in the thermostat only makes the chances of this happening greater when the ambient temperature is relatively low, which increases the efficiency of the cooling system.
The thermostat is actually a regulator - the degree to which it is open varies according to operating conditions.
Poking a hole in the thermostat only makes the chances of this happening greater when the ambient temperature is relatively low, which increases the efficiency of the cooling system.
The thermostat is actually a regulator - the degree to which it is open varies according to operating conditions.
08-12-2013, 11:46 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-19-2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 123
How the ECM determines whether the engine is warming correctly goes back to the alphabet soup of modules and sensors, but here goes....
"An Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor monitors the temperature of the coolant. This input is used by the Engine Control Module (ECM) for engine control and as an enabling criteria for some diagnosis.
The air flow coming into the engine is accumulated and used to determine if the vehicle has been driven within the conditions that would allow the engine coolant to heat up normally to the thermostat regulating temperature. If the coolant temperature does not increase normally or does not reach the regulating temperature of the thermostat, the diagnostics that use ECT as enabling criteria may not run when expected.
If the Engine Control Module (ECM) detects the calibrated amount of air flow and engine run time have been met, and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has not met the minimum thermostat regulating temperature, a diagnostic code will be set."
All that being said, my thoughts are if you do something that causes the engine to heat up faster than designed, or accounted for in the monitoring algorithms, you're likely to trigger a CEL and affect the change over point from Open Loop to Closed loop operation.
Rather than trying to improve on a system that has been pretty well thought out, just replace the thermostat with the correct replacement part.
If you are still lacking heat output, or feel that the heat output of the HVAC system is not up to snuff, look at the heater core for a possible restriction or clogging.
"An Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor monitors the temperature of the coolant. This input is used by the Engine Control Module (ECM) for engine control and as an enabling criteria for some diagnosis.
The air flow coming into the engine is accumulated and used to determine if the vehicle has been driven within the conditions that would allow the engine coolant to heat up normally to the thermostat regulating temperature. If the coolant temperature does not increase normally or does not reach the regulating temperature of the thermostat, the diagnostics that use ECT as enabling criteria may not run when expected.
If the Engine Control Module (ECM) detects the calibrated amount of air flow and engine run time have been met, and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has not met the minimum thermostat regulating temperature, a diagnostic code will be set."
All that being said, my thoughts are if you do something that causes the engine to heat up faster than designed, or accounted for in the monitoring algorithms, you're likely to trigger a CEL and affect the change over point from Open Loop to Closed loop operation.
Rather than trying to improve on a system that has been pretty well thought out, just replace the thermostat with the correct replacement part.
If you are still lacking heat output, or feel that the heat output of the HVAC system is not up to snuff, look at the heater core for a possible restriction or clogging.
The heater is just fine. Somewhere there was a question about monitoring engine temperature without gauges, and I mentioned using the heater vents.
08-12-2013, 11:59 AM
#16
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Join Date: 11-19-2008
Location: oregon
Posts: 123
Ok. I'm convinced. I can't thank this forum enough for its time.
Even if a 1/8" hole were to fly for awhile, since this isn't my car, it would not be acceptable to court almost certain trouble - no drilling.
(Still hoping someone that has actually tried this will chime in. Perhaps a 1/16" hole would work?)
Even if a 1/8" hole were to fly for awhile, since this isn't my car, it would not be acceptable to court almost certain trouble - no drilling.
(Still hoping someone that has actually tried this will chime in. Perhaps a 1/16" hole would work?)
08-12-2013, 12:08 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-05-2009
Location: New England
Posts: 452
Just let it go already. You're not going to gain anything out of this. Anytime you alter one little thing on a computer controlled car, it can be like a domino effect and can change many other variables that you didn't think of.
I'm not trying to sound like an ass here or anything, but you came into a public forum with this idea and everyone has told you multiple reasons why not to do it and you still can't accept the answers you are hearing
If I can give you one more piece of advice, it's just do whatever you want to do, but just not bother telling anyone about it anymore because nothing is going to change
08-12-2013, 12:21 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-13-2008
Location: Washington State, where it rains
Posts: 4,708
Only purpose is to speed up the air bleeding from the system...the cost being longer warm up times. which costs lower gas milage as it stays in cold circuit longer. delays TC lockup and no overdrive......Ive done this on another vehicle because refilling was a pain and lengthy (idea pulled from racing as the return hose generally sets higher then the rad) and really paid or it when winter came..not really noticeable in warm weather, but when temp dropped it took forever to warm up. And it was a tiny hole.
08-12-2013, 05:42 PM
#19
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Join Date: 04-09-2006
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,037
Wait - and it's not even your car that you were going to "hack into"? You are kidding.. right?
08-12-2013, 07:47 PM
#20
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Join Date: 01-23-2009
Location: Fredericksburg,VA
Posts: 25,326
HHR? I thought this was the '56 Biscayne group. Never mind.