HHR quality compared to perceived Foreign
03-20-2007, 01:24 PM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
Nah, don't make assumptions because you’re wrong and I'm not speaking of all Korean vehicles. My buddy Luis's wife had a Kia and the car was nothing but nightmares for them. They had to have the engine completely replaced three times within four years. All of it was under warranty but that doesn't quite say high quality vehicle to me. 
They traded it for a Malibu and didn't look back. When they had first purchased the vehicle Luis kept raving about the ten year warranty to my other buddy Justin and me. We kept telling him that he would need it. Sure enough he did. Kias are sub-economy cars; even the most expensive Kia is still very cheap.
They traded it for a Malibu and didn't look back. When they had first purchased the vehicle Luis kept raving about the ten year warranty to my other buddy Justin and me. We kept telling him that he would need it. Sure enough he did. Kias are sub-economy cars; even the most expensive Kia is still very cheap.Some 'o' dem ferin' jobbas is good, some aint! Just like any industries.
Now I'm glad some folks have had good times with Kias. Some of them must be fine or they would not have been sold in our market for so long.
Yugo any one?????????
03-20-2007, 01:52 PM
#33
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
MY opinion.......
The QUALITY of the car comes from the design and engineering.
Using just vehicles produced in the US. There is measurable differences of quality between Japanese and American vehicles, according to JD Powers. If they are assembled in the US, then the labor force is obtained from the same "groupings". Quality differences, theoretically, should not be different in assembly. between the manufacturers.
Currently, the JD ratings for the American vehicles are getting better...as I understand GM had the biggest and best advance in quality (that also could mean they WERE the worst). But the ratings gap is about 20 points between a Camry and a Malibu, on a approximate 160 total scale.
But, if anyone has access, look at the TOTAL number of TSB's of Toyota and GM. GM has about 6 times as many as Toyota...and Toyota total vehicle production is just behind GM (and will probably surpass it this model year). I THINK this is a good indication, to support my quality/design opinion.
Remember, I'm a GM person. So, I would have reason to believe GM is the "greatest". But, 10-15 years ago IT WAS NOT.....and STILL ISN'T. But, they're getting there, with a slow process.
The QUALITY of the car comes from the design and engineering.
Using just vehicles produced in the US. There is measurable differences of quality between Japanese and American vehicles, according to JD Powers. If they are assembled in the US, then the labor force is obtained from the same "groupings". Quality differences, theoretically, should not be different in assembly. between the manufacturers.
Currently, the JD ratings for the American vehicles are getting better...as I understand GM had the biggest and best advance in quality (that also could mean they WERE the worst). But the ratings gap is about 20 points between a Camry and a Malibu, on a approximate 160 total scale.
But, if anyone has access, look at the TOTAL number of TSB's of Toyota and GM. GM has about 6 times as many as Toyota...and Toyota total vehicle production is just behind GM (and will probably surpass it this model year). I THINK this is a good indication, to support my quality/design opinion.
Remember, I'm a GM person. So, I would have reason to believe GM is the "greatest". But, 10-15 years ago IT WAS NOT.....and STILL ISN'T. But, they're getting there, with a slow process.
03-20-2007, 01:59 PM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-20-2006
Location: Hillsdale, Michigan
Posts: 21,640
It's just amazing to me how many people will argue for/against just for the fact that they are a GM person etc. Even when GM does "get there" they are going to have to continue to improve to gain back all that they have lost.
03-20-2007, 02:16 PM
#35
Banned
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: Rochester,N.Y.
Posts: 9,121
I'm just an American industries supporter. I could give a damn about which brand as long as it's made in America. I will always buy an American product over its foreign counterpart. People like to complain about how ****ty our economy is, how major companies are going belly up or through massive changes and mergers, and how many jobs we are loosing all while blaming it on American companies. Then that same person will wear an entire outfit made somewhere like Pakistan, go out and get in their Honda, go home and pop a DVD in their Sony player, and sit down in front of their JVC TV without even thinking of the irony. We have nobody to blame but us the American consumer. It's the few that care like me that keep our American industries going and keep us having jobs. We're on the long road to becoming the United States of Japan. 
I like to look at the greater picture and not just think of myself and my needs. 
I like to look at the greater picture and not just think of myself and my needs.
03-20-2007, 02:17 PM
#36
Member
Join Date: 03-09-2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 51
Well my dad was a die-hard Cadillac owner. Every car he owned in the 60's, 70's and 80's was a Caddy.
And when I was old enough to drive his 84 Eldorado I admit it was a plush ride... but nothing worked. I was, at the time, driving an '80 Corolla. As I watched Toyota and Honda just get better and better, I saw GM rely on the sentiments of people to "buy American." As if they thought "we don't have to be good, we just have to be American." So they put out decade after decade of JUNK, (Aztek anyone?) and people bought them.
And it's not the American work force. Because all the cars produced in the US for Japanese and Korean companies are at the top of the quality lists (Hyundia Sonata, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, etc.). So it's not the people putting the cars together. It's something else. It's something systemic within the corporation. I don't know, maybe they "don't get it" or have spent too much time relying on the good graces of the American consumer, but I have to be honest... the only reason I bought a 2007 HHR (as opposed to a 2006) is because it came with a 100K mile powertrain warranty... the 2006 which only went to 36K miles.
I just wish American companies could do as well as other companies. Because, Hyundai is a perfect exampe of what can be done. In barely 15 years they went from producing 100% junk to #3 in quality, ahead of Toyota and Honda. If only GM, Chrysler and Ford could do that too.
BTW, in 1992 my dad traded in his Caddy... he got a Camry. He's had one ever since.
And when I was old enough to drive his 84 Eldorado I admit it was a plush ride... but nothing worked. I was, at the time, driving an '80 Corolla. As I watched Toyota and Honda just get better and better, I saw GM rely on the sentiments of people to "buy American." As if they thought "we don't have to be good, we just have to be American." So they put out decade after decade of JUNK, (Aztek anyone?) and people bought them.
And it's not the American work force. Because all the cars produced in the US for Japanese and Korean companies are at the top of the quality lists (Hyundia Sonata, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, etc.). So it's not the people putting the cars together. It's something else. It's something systemic within the corporation. I don't know, maybe they "don't get it" or have spent too much time relying on the good graces of the American consumer, but I have to be honest... the only reason I bought a 2007 HHR (as opposed to a 2006) is because it came with a 100K mile powertrain warranty... the 2006 which only went to 36K miles.
I just wish American companies could do as well as other companies. Because, Hyundai is a perfect exampe of what can be done. In barely 15 years they went from producing 100% junk to #3 in quality, ahead of Toyota and Honda. If only GM, Chrysler and Ford could do that too.
BTW, in 1992 my dad traded in his Caddy... he got a Camry. He's had one ever since.
03-20-2007, 02:20 PM
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
Now I'm gonna get bashed for this, but except for a hand full of cars GM's quality stopped in 1972. Period. That was it. All cars made in the US went downhill from therei. Emissions and lightening the cars for MPG took a huge toll.
My old Chrysler's rotted like the Toyotas and Datsuns that came in. My Olds 88 leaked. My Cadies creaked.
I suppose the Camaro/Firebird crowd could defend them until say 1975 with the TA HD superduty.....dunno, I don't like pony cars and their derivative counterparts. Good cars for other people as I like to say.
Anyway, back to quality. I lived through the eighties driving 1960's Buick s, Corvairs and other decently built relics of the past while my peers got newer cars that just lacked anything in my eyes. Fords kept breaking timing chains on their econhoaxes, Mavericks, kept on, well sucking,........AMC went away. They had stayed too long at the fair.
My friends cars were always at the shop. Me, I changed my Corvair belts and drove hundreds of thousands of miles into the sunsets. And learned some auto engineering terms along the way, like "polar moment"
I knew the foreign autos were making inroads when I was swayed into liking the Honda Prelude. I did this all on my own, no coaching. Really
I came around in '89 and bought a Ford Taurus SHO. Kept that car twelve years. It was a wonder beast. The US could build 'em again!
Then this SUV thing took hold and nothing has been right since. STUPID STUPID humans! Puny US earth dwellers! Hubris! Idiots. They thought nothing could rock their boat while Toyota and their ilk took all the other markets from them Stupid US auto manufactures. They built their own bed to lay in.
Perhaps the big three should become the big one and get it over with One car company united and making quality units would sure be better than many hands stumbling.
Or we could all just buy foreign and never look back. All our neighbors have........
My old Chrysler's rotted like the Toyotas and Datsuns that came in. My Olds 88 leaked. My Cadies creaked.
I suppose the Camaro/Firebird crowd could defend them until say 1975 with the TA HD superduty.....dunno, I don't like pony cars and their derivative counterparts. Good cars for other people as I like to say.
Anyway, back to quality. I lived through the eighties driving 1960's Buick s, Corvairs and other decently built relics of the past while my peers got newer cars that just lacked anything in my eyes. Fords kept breaking timing chains on their econhoaxes, Mavericks, kept on, well sucking,........AMC went away. They had stayed too long at the fair.
My friends cars were always at the shop. Me, I changed my Corvair belts and drove hundreds of thousands of miles into the sunsets. And learned some auto engineering terms along the way, like "polar moment"
I knew the foreign autos were making inroads when I was swayed into liking the Honda Prelude. I did this all on my own, no coaching. Really
I came around in '89 and bought a Ford Taurus SHO. Kept that car twelve years. It was a wonder beast. The US could build 'em again!
Then this SUV thing took hold and nothing has been right since. STUPID STUPID humans! Puny US earth dwellers! Hubris! Idiots. They thought nothing could rock their boat while Toyota and their ilk took all the other markets from them Stupid US auto manufactures. They built their own bed to lay in.
Perhaps the big three should become the big one and get it over with One car company united and making quality units would sure be better than many hands stumbling.
Or we could all just buy foreign and never look back. All our neighbors have........
03-20-2007, 02:25 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: 05-01-2006
Location: New London, CT USA
Posts: 2,507
Well my dad was a die-hard Cadillac owner. Every car he owned in the 60's, 70's and 80's was a Caddy.
And when I was old enough to drive his 84 Eldorado I admit it was a plush ride... but nothing worked. I was, at the time, driving an '80 Corolla. As I watched Toyota and Honda just get better and better, I saw GM rely on the sentiments of people to "buy American." As if they thought "we don't have to be good, we just have to be American." So they put out decade after decade of JUNK, (Aztek anyone?) and people bought them.
And it's not the American work force. Because all the cars produced in the US for Japanese and Korean companies are at the top of the quality lists (Hyundia Sonata, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, etc.). So it's not the people putting the cars together. It's something else. It's something systemic within the corporation. I don't know, maybe they "don't get it" or have spent too much time relying on the good graces of the American consumer, but I have to be honest... the only reason I bought a 2007 HHR (as opposed to a 2006) is because it came with a 100K mile powertrain warranty... the 2006 which only went to 36K miles.
I just wish American companies could do as well as other companies. Because, Hyundai is a perfect exampe of what can be done. In barely 15 years they went from producing 100% junk to #3 in quality, ahead of Toyota and Honda. If only GM, Chrysler and Ford could do that too.
BTW, in 1992 my dad traded in his Caddy... he got a Camry. He's had one ever since.
And when I was old enough to drive his 84 Eldorado I admit it was a plush ride... but nothing worked. I was, at the time, driving an '80 Corolla. As I watched Toyota and Honda just get better and better, I saw GM rely on the sentiments of people to "buy American." As if they thought "we don't have to be good, we just have to be American." So they put out decade after decade of JUNK, (Aztek anyone?) and people bought them.
And it's not the American work force. Because all the cars produced in the US for Japanese and Korean companies are at the top of the quality lists (Hyundia Sonata, Toyota Camry, Toyota Corolla, Honda Accord, etc.). So it's not the people putting the cars together. It's something else. It's something systemic within the corporation. I don't know, maybe they "don't get it" or have spent too much time relying on the good graces of the American consumer, but I have to be honest... the only reason I bought a 2007 HHR (as opposed to a 2006) is because it came with a 100K mile powertrain warranty... the 2006 which only went to 36K miles.
I just wish American companies could do as well as other companies. Because, Hyundai is a perfect exampe of what can be done. In barely 15 years they went from producing 100% junk to #3 in quality, ahead of Toyota and Honda. If only GM, Chrysler and Ford could do that too.
BTW, in 1992 my dad traded in his Caddy... he got a Camry. He's had one ever since.
Heck why do I want a Hyundai mini van and not a Chrysler? Could it be because my Voyager went through five trannies and four engines in 250,000 miles? I spent a ridiculous amount of time and money repairing that monstrosity. I have better things to do than call repair shops..............
03-20-2007, 02:32 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: 03-09-2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 51
Interestingly, the Taurus SHO had a Yamaha motor in it.
And while I would prefer to buy American, I don't exclude others. I'm a big believer in pure capitalism. The strongest and best survive. If a company isn't the best (or at least good), it doesn't deserve my business.
That's like taking your car to the local garage and saying, "Sure, Bob's Garage does a crappy job of fixing my car, but he lives on my street so I want to give him my business. I know that Joe's Garage does better work and is cheaper, but Joe doesn't live on my street." That's charity in my opinion.
And while I would prefer to buy American, I don't exclude others. I'm a big believer in pure capitalism. The strongest and best survive. If a company isn't the best (or at least good), it doesn't deserve my business.
That's like taking your car to the local garage and saying, "Sure, Bob's Garage does a crappy job of fixing my car, but he lives on my street so I want to give him my business. I know that Joe's Garage does better work and is cheaper, but Joe doesn't live on my street." That's charity in my opinion.
03-20-2007, 02:38 PM
#40
Banned
Join Date: 10-14-2005
Location: Rochester,N.Y.
Posts: 9,121
For some of us buying American is a way of life and there is nothing that can change that. But even being so hardcore about buying American some industries have me by the balls like video game and cell phone manufacturers. 
But even being so hardcore about buying American some industries have me by the balls like video game and cell phone manufacturers.