As a member of the "Never buy New" club, I feel the need to throw my .02 in.

Unfortunately for me, I don't live in an area with a competitive market. so, I payed about $1500 more OTD than Kingfrog did. But, I still view the purchase as a good deal in my local market.

I had looked at the Caliber, Vibe, Matrix, Honda CRV, Mazda 3 wagon, Hyundai Santa Fe, Tuscon, and Subaru Forester. For the Japanese cars, I couldn't bring myself to pay the inflated prices for USED cars. I don't understand how people can justify paying over $10K for a six year old four banger wagon with cloth seats. Amazingly enough, the Hyundais were selling for inflated prices too. Not only that, but they didn't get the fuel mileage that I was looking for.

I came close to buying an '05 Vibe for around $13K but still didn't feel comfortable with the price to age to mileage ratio. So, I let that deal slide and kept shopping.

I remember my favorite car from the past was a '94 Buick Skylark. This car shared a platform with the Pontiac Grand Am and Oldmobile Acheiva back then. I remember the styling was a bit funky (I like funky) and I could get the same car for about $1 to $2K less than the Olds or Pontiac. I was sold! My wife and I loved that car and put almost 200,000 miles on it. It still looked good when I traded it for a Mercury Mistake. I remember looking at the '06 redesign of the front end on those Skylarks and thinking to myself, "Wow, they ruined this car and made it look boring exactly like the Acheiva."

The HHR is like that Buick in that it is a bit funky. The resale value is not the same as for a Toyota, but that is honestly one of the things that attracted me to the car. I could get a nicely loaded '06 model vehicle for the same kind of cash as a lower trim, older model with the Toyota or Mazda. Why wouldn't I go witht he HHR? In my experience, the difference in real quality between the forign and domestic makes is mostly in the head of the people who insist on buying Hondas and Toyotas. They aren't "better" enough to justify the inflated re-sale values. So, on the used market, Amercan made cars almost always win out over Asian cars in my book.

So, I agree with Kingfrog that buying used American made cars is the way to go if want want to maximize your car purchasing dollar to the utmost. However, there are many factors that go into a vehicle purchasing decision. Some people are intimidated by the idea of purchasing used. Some just absolutely want to have that "new car scent". Some folks want the peace of mind of actually knowing how that stain ended up in the middle of the passenger seat So, it is worth it to them to pay the extra $$ for a new car. I say good for them Because let's face it. Without the new car buyers, I wouldn't have any used cars to purchase.

 

My new '07 had about $28,600 listed on the vehicle sticker, after all the negotiating I got it for $28,300 bottom line (incl. 7% prov. sales tax and 7% GST). I was looking at used ones but my monthly payments over 5 years came out to the same thing because of the 0% GMAC financing, and I have a full warantee. I am happy with my deal, and in the end that is what is important.

Jim

 

That's an easy answer. USing YOUR stratagy, I looked up KBB on MY HHR. I used the TRADE IN value number they gave on MY HHR with MY mileage. I compared that to what I paid new for the car. Differance is under $4K. I also pulled the same date from KBB (used) and Edmonds (new) to compare the same 2006 Camary and those numbers were well above $4K. Of course actual numbers will vary. But I would never pay sticker on a new or more than trade in for a used (black book actually). Of course you will debate this again using your own misguided images. I know the used car market. I deal in leased vehicles. I purchase about 1000 vehicles each year for my customers, and sell the old. I know what they run new and what they go for on the auction block (BTW all I would pay for any used). There is a lot of logic buying used cars. I don't not disagree with that. But I see used cars all the time selling for more than new (as in when I bought my HHR).

One last time, if you are happy with your purchase, great. That is all that matters.

 

Solman98, JimDaddyo, and Frozenspokes all make great points. There is no one right or wrong (except for paying a premium for a much older Toyota, etc.) way to purchase a car. I am happy with my choices and respect the choices of others. I don't particularly worry about resale since I have Four beautiful daughters and their husbands, and 10 grandkids (only 3 are of driving age) standing in line for my generally low mileage well maintained vehicles.

 

If you did give up "only $4000" to drive a new car that's a lot of money for the new car smell in my opinion. My example with Toyota was real world as you know. You made a claim. I asked for real world proof. Is it misguided to assume You cannot get a low miles clean 23k Toyota a year later for even $9k less then new. Even at auction?. I don't see whats "misguided" about that. Thats real world. If you are in the business as you claim you would know how erroneous that statement is on it's face.

Real world says I should get $13.5 for a car I just paid $14k for (including taxes TTL and fees) IF I were to trade the HHR in today. Thats a good number but even at $1000 Back of "good" KBB book or the GAlves number thank God they don't use that book here), My loss is less then a new import and far less then a new HHR. Again not misguided. And what have I given up? 11,000 miles. Not bad to save thousands plus interest I can use on my next car purchase.

I see used cars PRICED" at more then new (after rebates) BUt if they are ACTUALLY SELLING more then new they have caught some giant whales who are not particularly savvy about buying cars and the Salesmen have hit the proverbial Home Runs.

I enjoy the car despite the issues I had hoped the previous owner took care of. (Another reason to buy Low mile used). But I would not have paid any more for it then I did. Not even $100. I wrote the check and was prepared to walk.

Now let me ad a disclaimer to the used vs new argument. One must consider the cost of money when buying used and factor that into the final coat of the car, Used car money is more expensive then new. I can be far more expensive to buy a used car if you are financing. I have not financed a car in years with a bank. Only my savings account. (I pay INGDiRECT $336 a month plus interest for my car even though the Ford was paid for) In three years I will have around $15K in the "car account" plus the then value of the HHR to find another great used car.

If I can help someone (especially the younger folks) save some money I will. I am not in car sales but we are completely out of debt including our home and finance ourselves. Have been that way since I was 42. 10 years ago. We did this never earning over $50k a year and making good financial decisions. I work part time now as does the wife and we are not neither rich nor extravagant but we do enjoy some toys cash and carry. Its funny how we now have an 833 FICO and don't need it.


BTW I LOVE your SIG.....

 

Though the issue of whether or not a never-titled program vehicle is "used", I was appalled at how little dealers were willing to concede on "exec driven" HHR's with less than 6,000 miles, especially considering a short term resale value that belies most people's affinity for their HHRs. In three cases, no dealer was willing to move lower than $800 below invoice, with one refusing to go lower than invoice less $100.

Of course, we did the circle-jerk dance of the sales manager huffing and puffing about how it wasn't reasonable to expect a dealer to "lose money" on a "new car" and me asking him whether or not there's something about program cars that make the holdback suddenly vanish and explaining that if they want to lavish such benefits upon the dealer management, the appropriate ledger entry falls under the heading of labor. At least "dealer B" and his approach of trying to concede $.15/mile "just like a lease vehicle" had a modicum of plausibility to it (though he couldn't justify why it should be at the rate assessed to residual value of end-of-lease vehicles rather than a rate that more accurately reflected the depreciation at the beginning of the lease.

The fact that they had no answers to these points was moot when I started to receive dumb stares in response. So, at the end of the day, I popped an extra $1,000 down for the new vehicle of my choice without having to care about how it may have been driven. Sometimes, even if you can win every battle, the damn war still isn't worth the headache.

 

These cars are selling themselves. Notice the lack of HHR advertising. The dealers don't have much incentive to make a deal on something someone will just come in and buy for asking price. It is too bad we all love such a cool auto!

Jim

 

Really? I had absolutely NO problem beginning the negotation at flat invoice at any of the dealerships I visited, and had deal sheets for 3. I think the only actual artifical demand pressure for the '07s is coming from the $2,000 on the LTs, and even that's not making them so unusually exclusive due to the $1,000 being offered on the '08s and the likelihood of another round of $1,000 incentives when the current crop expires October 1.

Oh well. At the end of the day, I opted to add XM to my acceptable option matrix, found another one 20 miles away, and gladly paid $1,000 to take an undriven example home, $500 of which I gladly write off as "personal satisfaction funds" of not giving the other dealership the deal.

 

Maybe up in Canada these cars are selling themselves and getting the asking price, Jim. But frankly, anyone here in the States would be crazy to pay "sticker" or anything close to it. Dealers are essentially giving them away, as far as any relationship to MSRP (but they will try to "sting" you for whatever they can). Most of the sales are for far less then MSRP and the dealer gets an unadvertised incentive from GM to deplete the 07 inventories. That's probably one of the many reasons why GM vehicles have very little resale value (except in certain areas for specific models).

And I hate to sound like a conspirator, but as crafty has mentioned so many times, GM is not going to spend 10's or 100's of millions of dollars advertising a vehicle they make very little profit on. The lack of advertising probably does have something to do with the HHR's lack of identity and the surplus 07's and, I'm told, a few 06's in the dealers lots (and the 08's are out).

 

could be Snoop...I think I negotiated a pretty good deal...who know what goes on in the General's head...as with most companies, max profit probably. Maybe just a few dealers are bad apples. I would hate to paint them all with the same brush as the dealer I go to is fantastic.

Jim