Oil Analysis
01-25-2009, 09:46 AM
#11
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2007
Location: California
Posts: 13
Hi Snoopy.
the lab sample went to Oil Analyzers which appears to be owned or controlled by Amsoil but as i said earlier i believe there are only 2 labs that actually doe's the work
My 24 K with Mobil ! was this, VIS 9.2,TBN 3.07,Oxidation 16,Nitration 23
My 34 K with Amsoil was this, VIS 10.7,TBN 2.84,Oxidation 42,Nitration 29
Leads me to to believe the oil was going away.
I will say the Mobil 1 only had 7k on it VS the Amsoil at 10 K
The lab did report the oxidation as critical and yes the engine was warmed up to about 190 though i should have gone to about 225 to make sure the T stat was open and all the sensors were switched on
Also the wear metals were elevated,aluminum was up to 5 ppm
Dont know that im dogging the oil just concerned if i ran it too long ?
OK looked it up and Amsoil state the the TBN new is 12.2 which would indicate the additive package was about 75 % depleted
the lab sample went to Oil Analyzers which appears to be owned or controlled by Amsoil but as i said earlier i believe there are only 2 labs that actually doe's the work
My 24 K with Mobil ! was this, VIS 9.2,TBN 3.07,Oxidation 16,Nitration 23
My 34 K with Amsoil was this, VIS 10.7,TBN 2.84,Oxidation 42,Nitration 29
Leads me to to believe the oil was going away.
I will say the Mobil 1 only had 7k on it VS the Amsoil at 10 K
The lab did report the oxidation as critical and yes the engine was warmed up to about 190 though i should have gone to about 225 to make sure the T stat was open and all the sensors were switched on
Also the wear metals were elevated,aluminum was up to 5 ppm
Dont know that im dogging the oil just concerned if i ran it too long ?
OK looked it up and Amsoil state the the TBN new is 12.2 which would indicate the additive package was about 75 % depleted
01-25-2009, 11:03 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-13-2008
Location: Washington State, where it rains
Posts: 4,708
20 years ago did not have the metallurgy(or design) or the oil formulas thay have today.Yes, what worked 20 years ago is fine but,remember the cassette was working fine too, but the CD is better.Oil change is and always will be dependant upon driving conditions.
01-25-2009, 11:48 PM
#14
Platinum Member
Join Date: 05-09-2006
Location: "Upland" Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 6,805
Yeah, rocketman.....I would be concerned with the oxidation and nitration, based on the comparison numbers you supplied. Especially with the large difference between the first and second values. The TBN not so much in relationship to the change interval.
BUT, you CAN change a little earlier in the oil life cycle if this really concerns you.
Now, please understand I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON OIL. I'm giving my opinion. And I do not know you or your driving habits.
Your oxidation and nitration COULD be related to how your vehicle is used. And this is very important. Short runs.....even with the engine temperature indicated at 190....could cause values such as you are experiencing ( I remember, at my former employer, getting samples from a field test fleet of taxi cabs in San Diego. The analysis was all over the spectrum based on the type of driving each cab driver utilyzed). An remember, your DIC temperature gauge is for coolant temperature. Your oil temperature could be much lower. For example, my other vehicle has total read-out DIC. When my coolant first indicates 190, my oil temp is only about 105......hardly enough to provide enough heat to remove condensation This is one of the very important areas, the auto manufacturers emphasize........assuring the vehicle is used enough to heat the engine, oil, converter, etc. enough to remove condensation.
In retrospect....you may have OVERHEATED your oil to cause oxidation....posssibly from extended periods of idling, etc.
My suggestion......use the analysis as an aid to determine your change intervals. You may wish to contact your lab for suggestions. But I would bet, that changing your oil at an earlier interval, say 7000 miles, you would witness some lower values.
Also, even though it is an additional expense, you may wish to send 2 samples of the same oil....to 2 different labs.
BUT, you CAN change a little earlier in the oil life cycle if this really concerns you.
Now, please understand I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON OIL. I'm giving my opinion. And I do not know you or your driving habits.
Your oxidation and nitration COULD be related to how your vehicle is used. And this is very important. Short runs.....even with the engine temperature indicated at 190....could cause values such as you are experiencing ( I remember, at my former employer, getting samples from a field test fleet of taxi cabs in San Diego. The analysis was all over the spectrum based on the type of driving each cab driver utilyzed). An remember, your DIC temperature gauge is for coolant temperature. Your oil temperature could be much lower. For example, my other vehicle has total read-out DIC. When my coolant first indicates 190, my oil temp is only about 105......hardly enough to provide enough heat to remove condensation This is one of the very important areas, the auto manufacturers emphasize........assuring the vehicle is used enough to heat the engine, oil, converter, etc. enough to remove condensation.
In retrospect....you may have OVERHEATED your oil to cause oxidation....posssibly from extended periods of idling, etc.
My suggestion......use the analysis as an aid to determine your change intervals. You may wish to contact your lab for suggestions. But I would bet, that changing your oil at an earlier interval, say 7000 miles, you would witness some lower values.
Also, even though it is an additional expense, you may wish to send 2 samples of the same oil....to 2 different labs.
01-26-2009, 07:13 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-19-2008
Location: Outside the Capitol Beltway
Posts: 178
oil wears out
Guys,
Here's what I hear" don't sweat the TBN results because after all, the environment won with less waste oil output".
Are you kidding? Your engine just suffered months of unneeded engine wear and you say things like this? Geeze!
Titan labs or others will sell you a kit to take oil samples. You want to hear them say what they said to me after using Redline Ester based synthetic (not the cheap syn everyone else makes). "Put the oil back in your vehicle and run it more because it is in great condition". My TBN (the life of oil and whats left) was better used 1 year in my 2000 Vette than many brand new mineral based dino oils.
Chose your results, know your products. You can run your yap all you like but oil analysis is the truth from a microscope.
QuickRick
Here's what I hear" don't sweat the TBN results because after all, the environment won with less waste oil output".
Are you kidding? Your engine just suffered months of unneeded engine wear and you say things like this? Geeze!
Titan labs or others will sell you a kit to take oil samples. You want to hear them say what they said to me after using Redline Ester based synthetic (not the cheap syn everyone else makes). "Put the oil back in your vehicle and run it more because it is in great condition". My TBN (the life of oil and whats left) was better used 1 year in my 2000 Vette than many brand new mineral based dino oils.
Chose your results, know your products. You can run your yap all you like but oil analysis is the truth from a microscope.
QuickRick
Last edited by QuickRick; 01-26-2009 at 07:20 PM. Reason: too harsh a comment
01-26-2009, 10:04 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-19-2008
Location: Outside the Capitol Beltway
Posts: 178
testing oil
Yup,
This is how you learn where you really stand in regards to changes. Too often, too late?
You really know when you test and provided your situation remains the same. (driving habits and roads/speeds, oils)
QuickRick
This is how you learn where you really stand in regards to changes. Too often, too late?
You really know when you test and provided your situation remains the same. (driving habits and roads/speeds, oils)
QuickRick
01-27-2009, 03:07 AM
#19
New Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 04-29-2007
Location: California
Posts: 13
Hell i dont even get to drive it !
Momma drives it.
It's about a 20 mile drive each way to work and home on the freeway
I just want to make the engine live.
I will sample the Amsoil 5W30 at 5k after about a 20 mile run and then split the sample to say Blackstone and another lab (isnt that what they do with pee test's ?)
Sure its gonna cost 50 bucks but isnt that better than kicking the rods out ?
Momma drives it.
It's about a 20 mile drive each way to work and home on the freeway
I just want to make the engine live.
I will sample the Amsoil 5W30 at 5k after about a 20 mile run and then split the sample to say Blackstone and another lab (isnt that what they do with pee test's ?)
Sure its gonna cost 50 bucks but isnt that better than kicking the rods out ?