SoCal HHR Logo
07-03-2009, 09:14 AM
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-13-2006
Location: Superior, WI - Over the Hill Warranty Club member
Posts: 2,999
Gm Version
Great Lakes HHRs Version W/Runningboards
Great Lakes HHRs Version W/Runningboards
07-03-2009, 09:17 AM
#32
Thanks Tom! So basically, the only difference to the SoCal one is the surf board, and a little swoop line on the back hatch?
07-03-2009, 09:27 AM
#33
I can take an Ansel Adams photograph, edit one little thing on it, and slap my name on it. Does that make it mine? It's the same difference.
07-03-2009, 09:34 AM
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-13-2006
Location: Superior, WI - Over the Hill Warranty Club member
Posts: 2,999
The picture is copyrighted, The logos are copyrighted and Trademarked, there is a difference.
No, on the logos their body lines are changed from the original also. the window and the body lines are changed in the above examples. So if you change the original or add to it you make a new design that is unique and can be registered for another club if desired, I do see an error on the Great Lakes is the C will be changed to a TM.
Just to note: HHR is a trademark of GM also. EQ will authorize use of the logo and HHR on your website also. Also will authorize sale of Club items to club members only, This is the reason for the club sites on the Web so they can provide a spot to sell to their members.
I found out what happens when a HHR item is found through a bad placed link. Trust me they will find it.
So if you are starting a club or working on a logo for your club keep it out of viewing until it is registered with Equity Management and also note they retain rights to your club website. If the find it before you get your permission letter, they will provide you with a letter first.
Nuff said.
No, on the logos their body lines are changed from the original also. the window and the body lines are changed in the above examples. So if you change the original or add to it you make a new design that is unique and can be registered for another club if desired, I do see an error on the Great Lakes is the C will be changed to a TM.
Just to note: HHR is a trademark of GM also. EQ will authorize use of the logo and HHR on your website also. Also will authorize sale of Club items to club members only, This is the reason for the club sites on the Web so they can provide a spot to sell to their members.
I found out what happens when a HHR item is found through a bad placed link. Trust me they will find it.
So if you are starting a club or working on a logo for your club keep it out of viewing until it is registered with Equity Management and also note they retain rights to your club website. If the find it before you get your permission letter, they will provide you with a letter first.
Nuff said.
07-03-2009, 09:37 AM
#35
Either way... I don't see why anyone needs to ask him for permission. Just use GM's design, since it is virtually the same.
Go back to my Ansel Adam reference.... I lightened the shadows under the rocks, so theoretically I changed the picture. Does that make it mine? Or does it still belong to Ansel Adams?
Go back to my Ansel Adam reference.... I lightened the shadows under the rocks, so theoretically I changed the picture. Does that make it mine? Or does it still belong to Ansel Adams?
07-03-2009, 09:56 AM
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-02-2006
Location: Break Away Republic of SoCal
Posts: 1,533
Courtesy Counts Enough Said
Fine then change a line then make it your own! 
Quit beating a dead horse and agree to disagree. I see this thread going on and on - point counter point. - to what purpose so you can get the last word? Your post next kid.
Quit beating a dead horse and agree to disagree. I see this thread going on and on - point counter point. - to what purpose so you can get the last word? Your post next kid.
07-03-2009, 10:00 AM
#37
Founding Member
Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
Let's just say the OP's question has been answered and move on.
07-03-2009, 10:04 AM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-23-2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,720
Now all you need to do is contact Ansel Adams Estate and ask them permission to publish your version of his image. Once you have that in hand you are set.
I also hope you don't find your version on a t-shirt or hat somewhere.Honestly, can we let this thread die its painful death?
07-03-2009, 10:09 AM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-30-2006
Location: Maryland Heights, MO
Posts: 9,149
Copyright/trademark laws are very complicated. I ran a small medical document company and we had to deal with these issues constantly.
A copyrighted or trademarked item does NOT have to have TM or (C) on it to be protected.
When images are involved there are only three legal ways of using an owned imaged:
1. Getting permission from the owner to use it.
2. Substantially changing it so that it would in no way ever be confused with the original image. The key here is that it has to be so different than the original image that at a glance, someone would not think it was a product of the original image owner.
3. parody
These types of legal issues are not easily determined from the actual laws but is based on case law.
The outline in question, does not meet condition 2 or 3 and, in court, it would be doubtful if it was determined to be a new creation which could be trademarked. It is not significantly different than GM's original image and was not used in a parody.
Therefor the only permission needed would be from the original image owner, in this case GM.
I have dealt with issues like this many, many times and have worked with intellectual property lawyers several times. That is why when I had HHR shirts created (for The HHR Store), I did not use sofachrome font, because then it is a GM trademark. HHR, the letters themselves, are not. The artwork was so different than anything that GM did, there was no way it could be confused with a GM product, therefore I did not use permission or was in anyway of any danger of being shut down. I used original artwork.
The club logo is a different thing. The image and font used were so similar to what GM created that we had to get permission, which was granted. Remember though, you are only given permission for images that you submit and are given permission to use. Any future images that you make that are in anyway different, must be submitted for permission.
I had no idea there would be so much drama over this. If anyone has any question about my post, great. Otherwise I am done with this issue.
A copyrighted or trademarked item does NOT have to have TM or (C) on it to be protected.
When images are involved there are only three legal ways of using an owned imaged:
1. Getting permission from the owner to use it.
2. Substantially changing it so that it would in no way ever be confused with the original image. The key here is that it has to be so different than the original image that at a glance, someone would not think it was a product of the original image owner.
3. parody
These types of legal issues are not easily determined from the actual laws but is based on case law.
The outline in question, does not meet condition 2 or 3 and, in court, it would be doubtful if it was determined to be a new creation which could be trademarked. It is not significantly different than GM's original image and was not used in a parody.
Therefor the only permission needed would be from the original image owner, in this case GM.
I have dealt with issues like this many, many times and have worked with intellectual property lawyers several times. That is why when I had HHR shirts created (for The HHR Store), I did not use sofachrome font, because then it is a GM trademark. HHR, the letters themselves, are not. The artwork was so different than anything that GM did, there was no way it could be confused with a GM product, therefore I did not use permission or was in anyway of any danger of being shut down. I used original artwork.
The club logo is a different thing. The image and font used were so similar to what GM created that we had to get permission, which was granted. Remember though, you are only given permission for images that you submit and are given permission to use. Any future images that you make that are in anyway different, must be submitted for permission.
I had no idea there would be so much drama over this. If anyone has any question about my post, great. Otherwise I am done with this issue.