Harpozep

Amen to that sir. I wish more companies looked at the longer battle and not the daily bottom line. Stupid shareholders and their quarterly returns outlook.

haypops

I know perfectly well that the Vibe is a Toyota product (albiet one produced by UAW members in a GM facility). The rest of your assertions are untrue however. Toyota is indeed Dephi's second largest coustomer. My son in-law's toyota has many GM parts, Harrison radiator delphi battery, etc.

pg318

Just as well my HHR has a Denso alternator in it.

solman98

So the CR best buy awards are for cars 7 years old?
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/c...cars/index.htm
Good god do you do any reasearch before you speak? No wonder CR is about as reliable as a Tundra tailgate.

Have you ever been to a Fed Fleet? We go every year. We get to hear what the auto makers are actually saying, not what you get to read in a memo.

Thanks for reminding me about the famouns sludge issue. I hear that so often, I almost forgot it wasn't standard.

The T100 was a decent truck as long as you wanted a <fullsize truck on a compact frame powered by a weak V6. Granted, with the 8' bed it did make for a somewhat better choice than 4cyl Ranger or S10. IF you wanted to pay the premium for them. Amazing how many you don't see on the road these days. The new Tundra is still a POS, bad tailgates, broken camshafts, bad torque converters, non hydroformed frames (wtf). If you want to call that a dip in quality. I hope that is meant like the grand canyon is a small ditch.

I love this photo:


I know, I know. Toyota doesn't make a 1Ton truck.

Or did they in 1987?




Then what is this?


I know, coming soon.

Is GM perfect? Hell no. Is toyota? Hell no again. Toyota had a great run. But you can tell by the attitudes of Toyota, and apparently their employees, that they still think they are the greatest. But their quality had more than just dipped. I sitll find it hard to believe you are buying a GM. I can just see you are one that will quickly point out every little bump you see.

But if you see this on the all mighty tundra tailgate:

Well toyota's taking care of it. Funny how the folks at TundraSoluntions.com are having to do this
http://www.petitiononline.com/Kwasted/petition.html
to get this issue resolved. A few had even been told by their dealerships to removed the tailgate before loading. Now that's a truck you can be proud of.

Well I'm don'e here. You'll be happy to hear you are now on my ignore list. Makes my day happier to not read crap from trolls.

I do truely hope you enjoy your HHR.

HHRuss

No it's not. My Tacoma is all Delphi.

(no argument Denso is better)

Kingfrog

Got to agree with this.I had a Toyota 4WD Pick up and was the third owner. I took it in to Toyota with 97K on it to fix a head gasket leak. THEY FIXED IT FREE because they said there were some issues with head gaskets between 92 and 96. I told a friend who had 120k on his and he took his in as well.

There is a local Chevy dealer here who won't take cars he did not sell in for warranty work (Service managers are instructed to claim a 3 week wait if the car was not purchased there) because of surveys!!!!! .

Thats said I like the HHR but am extremely cautiously optimistic regarding reliability, I don't put on more then 30 miles or so a week on the car though. Thats why I decided to chance it. For the money I paid, not a bad chance to take.

fastsuv

There has been a class-action lawsuit for the engine sludging problem that involved a large number of vehicles (and different engines). There was also a class-action lawsuit involving the Sienna minivan. There are also many dissatisfied owners of Avalons.

Consumer Reports recently said that they no longer recommend V6 Camrys or Tundra trucks because of reliability problems.

I mention the above not to imply that Toyota vehicles are all bad products, but instead to show that they make products with problems and sometimes don't satisfy the customer (class action lawsuits).
They are not perfect cars and their dealers(along with Toyota) don't always bend over backward to fix any problems.

I honestly believe that the current crop of new GM cars is as good as the new Toyotas. It will take a while to change the perception though, as there was a lot of damage done to GM by poor products in the 70s, 80s and 90s. During that time period, the Japanese automakers stepped into an ideal situation for themselves by offering vehicles with better fit-and-finish and reliability. Many people that got burned by poor domestic cars will have to be convinced that the new GM cars are really that good.

Toyota is also finding out how hard it is to sell a huge number of vehicles (of different kinds) and maintain quality control. Also, you tend to get complacent when you are #1 in earnings (Toyota), exactly the kind of thing that got GM in trouble. Does anyone think that GM wouldn't be building such good new cars (Malibu, CTS,etc) if their backs weren't to the wall recently? Remember the old Avis ad that said "when you're number 2 you try harder"?

Steve

Kingfrog

No way GM is as good as Toyota even today. I know of no Toyota owner who has the number of issues I and many have had such as the Brakes issues, Shifter issues, Steering column issues, Engine light s....All of which I had and many others apparently judging by the TSBs on the HHR alone.

Not quite yet GM. The nit picky stuff I have always had with GM is still here. Nothing big but just little things, I do not think any Toyota would have these issues as TSBs. The whole first year model doesn't wash with me as the Cobalt has been around awhile. I realize the GM fans are jumping all over any "issues" Toyota may be having with glee. But those issues are still far far less then I have suffered in the first three weeks of ownership.

I really like the HHR. Otherwise I would not be spending money on trinkets for it. However I have no illusions about the reliability and or quality for the long term. The resale says a lot already and it's because of the poor resale I bought the car at a huge discount and am giving it a chance.

Frozenspokes

Interesting thread, here is my take on the issue.

For me, US made cars have USUALLY been pretty reliable. I have rarely found myself stranded on the road with an american made car, and when I did, it was usually a wear item that gave up such as an alternator. I have only had two cars that suffered catostrophic drive train failure. One was a 1986 Acura Integra with the 2.0 VTEC engine. As much as people love to gush on Honda quality, this engine was a shining example dog poo IMHO. I know for a fact that I am not alone in having problems with this engine leaking oil out of the head gasket nearly as fast you could pour it into the fill cap. The engine eventually seized on that car. Of course, I was the third owner of the vehicle, and I have no doubt that the original owner never experienced this problem. The other one that stranded me was a 1996 Mercury Mistyque (mistake). This car also had a 16 valve 4 banger. Again, I know that mine was not the only one to suffer a blown head gasket before it hit the 100K mark. I can think of two others in my rather small community that suffered the same problem. One Asian car, and one domstic.

Where the Asian cars always seemed to outshine their domestic counterparts for me was in the quality of the switchgear. I know that I have had to replace multiple window switches, automatic sliding door switches, and power lock solinoids on my domestic vehicles. None of these things would strand you, but they sure do get annoying and affect your over all view of the quality of the vehicle. As a counterpoint, I never had to replace any of that on any of the Asian or german cars that I have owned over the years.

For my money, GM seems to make some pretty fine engines and AUTOMATIC transmissions. I have put almost 200K on a GM car only replacing wear items and doing scheduled maintenance. I have owned a GM car with 220K and the engine and tranny ran flawlessly. Ford and Chrysler seem to lag in the drivetrain dept compared to GM.

Every foreign made car that I have owned has had issues. From the Scirraco that wouldn't start unless the engine was warm, to the Nissan that regularly fouled plugs, to the Acura that left oil slicks wherever it was parked. I am sure that much of my experience came from neglect of previous owners, but it was enough to turn me off of paying a premium for foreign made USED cars.

I know that mine is a very small sample, but it's the only sample that matters to me

Kingfrog

I agree. Catastrophic failures are pretty non existent. Its the PIA stuff that are still issues, Fit and finish things, switches, handles, My hatch plastic pull down piece came off in my hand the other day. my RV mirror is loose. Dumb little things.