hyperv6

I did not embelish I used somone elses numbers that had quoted them on a GM site.

So they were wrong but they also were not the main point of the statment anyway. It still did not change the my thought

Sorry if the numbers were wrong.

Sparky

Toyota sales are down 25% in October 2008 for the same period last year in the U.S. I doubt there is any hiring going on at the present time at Toyota.

hhrcrafty

I parsed a bit of your post for clarity, but the highlighted portion is what I really wanted to focus on. GM sells more cars worldwide than any other manufacturer, period. More than Toyota, although they are always extremely close, and waaay more than Honda, Nissan, or Hyundai/KIA. The Big Three still sell more cars combined worldwide than ALL of the foreign brands put together. So this whole BS of people running away from the Big Three in droves is exactly that--BS.

Any time you have competition in the marketplace, people are going to naturally move from brand to brand. People get bored with Toyota and Honda too--that's why they still advertise. The biggest mistake GM made with Oldsmobile was failing to recognize that it was okay to have a brand that catered primarily to the Over 50 market. Boomers and their parents have more money and spend more of it than any other market segment--and they were spending a lot of money on 88's and Cutlass Supremes. A lot of angry Olds owners went to Toyota and Honda after the shutdown instead of Buick and Saturn like they were supposed to, and I think it's because a lot of Olds dealers started selling Toyota and Honda.

One thing that you and unfortunately, Saturday Night Live, fail to understand is that the auto industry has ALWAYS rebounded when loaned money by the government. Chrysler in the 80's and 90's is a great example. They went from almost closing doors to becoming the most profitable auto manufacturer in the world before the Germans killed the company in the DCX merger. Mitsubishi probably wouldn't be selling cars in the US if it weren't for Chrysler.

But hey, I guess it's okay to lend $700 billion to banks with no strings attached to save the Acura-driving yuppies driving to the Hamptons for a $500k "training retreat". It's a safer bet to loan money to compulsive gamblers who bet your entire life savings for a living on a glorified international Ponzi scheme in subprime mortgage investment pools.

Kingfrog

No but there will be when the economy gets better and people start filling the gaps left by Automakers who cannot sustain.

People don;t realize the economy was MUCH MUCH worse in the 70's. and in 87. We made it though then and will make it through again. If you have extra cash lying around I would and am investing it in beaten down but great companies. In five years you won;t be sorry. You just have to know to sell off 3/4 when the DOW reaches a new high and stay out awhile if it drops more than 10%.

Business runs like everything in cycles. IF you can whether the down side you will greatly benefit from the upside. IT worked for Buffet and he's investing now as well. This is a huge opportunity you see only a few times in a life time.

Not for GM and Ford though. But they made their own beds. They cannot whether thie storm like Toyota and Honda and even Hyundai. Perhaps they should have learned FROM them a long time ago,

Kingfrog

Your statement reeks of class envy over thought.


The history books are filled with failed automaker monikers.....and companies.
Chrysler is a POOR example LOOK AT WHERE THEY ARE TODAY...IN the worst position and sold to private individuals. There is no LEE IACOCCA out there today to save Ford and then Chrysler. The money they got then was a Pittance to what they are ALL asking for now.

You are typical of the press brainwashing. BTW The rich have lost a ton as well, check out the yacht sales....who do you think builds them?
Ask private Jet lessors. who do you think fly them, maintain them, and lease them? Regular people.
......Ask small businesses , restaurants, waiters and service workers in NYC how their lives are going, Wall street has lost a ton of jobs. Many of the better players have been recruited to smaller firms in Florida, Oklahoma and various areas of the country,

You simply CAN NOT let the big banks fail....IF they go EVERYONE GOES not just 2% of the population that will be supported by the rest through unemployment benefits (which come from banks and are deposited in banks)
EVERYBODY uses banks. ALL business use banks. Still 500 banks have failed. You let the Auto companies fail and you have 2% unemployment jump. You let the major banks fail and you get a world wide DEPRESSION. Banks have their tentacles in every area of business not just the automakers but small business, home owners, those who use credit cards on and on. This is not about "class envy" (As the UAW seems to ignite when negotiating, we know how that worked out)

There is no Toyota Bank, No NIssan Bank to fill the void, You have complete and total financial collapse if you let the large banks go down,
You take money out of the pockets of the rich and an a whole slew of common people lose their jobs selling and servicing those lifestyles.

The UAW got greedy. They tried with the foreign automakers but their workforces were doing fine thank you and appear to be doing well today,


Read a friggin book dude and stay away from the TV.

Kingfrog

[QUOTE=hyperv6;331701]IF it were only that easy.

Why should they?
You build better cars at a better value, you do to them what they did to you!!
BS> They don't file because if they did the UAW contract would be the first contract the BK judges would void leaving the door wide open for those who will take those jobs at $25 an hour in a place where you can buy homes cheap and live pretty well on $40k a year,
Explain. You rid yourselves of expensive contracts, you reorganize your business, make cheaper cars using cheaper labor JUST LIKE TOYOTA and the rest of them who demolished the US sales in this country. YOu make your CEOS take lower salaries and elimiate the UAW and let workers INDIVIUALLY negotiate their own worth to the company, I'll bet there would be no shortage of people willing to work for far less then a total compensation package of $140K a year...Honda,Toyota amd NIssan factories are full of them making a "paltry" $96K.....

You need to understand the US banking system. it DWARFS the Auto Industry and touches every single person in the world. No choice there. No backup banks. No NIssan to pick up the slack. Individual salaries and bonuses make for great negitive press though and form opinions of those who have no clue about how the world economy really works. They are still living in the 50's when the autoindustry was "to big to fail" That's not true anymore.

I cannot stand either one of them but its not that simple. They have no choice, Try to barter instead of write checks.
TWO DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES..BAnking is the GLUE that holds the world economy together and banks are entangled with each other. Talk about dominos.
Not the same with auto companies. When one fails another does better. They are not intertwined. They operate individually and in competition. Banks do to some extent but they all share the SAME EXACT product. Money. Apples and Oranges.

This is a management issue as well as a UAW issue. The management needs to correct their OWN problem. PR is not going to solve this issue,

People HAVE to use banks
People don't HAVE to buy American cars.

The jobs are already in jeopardy whether they get their 25 Billion or not. Now they are driving instead of flying to Washington....What a PR joke. Those CEOS need to go. They should be fired for negotiating bad contracts. Management is the real issue here. Why should we give the SAME PEOPLE ANOTHER CHANCE to fail?? Management needs to cut pay to the competitor's level no matter what the UAW says, no one will have any synpathy for the UAW if management faces them down. IF the UAW won;t play. File Chapter 11 and let the judge void all contracts...THEN I would support helping them succeed,

But business as usual without a business plan won;t get you a loan from ANY BANK.

esmarkey

Oh no, here we go again....

ChevyMgr

X2!

hhrcrafty

You really don't want to go down this road.

I was a lawyer for a company that is still in one of the longest and most drawn out bankruptcies in corporate American history. If you honestly believe that a bankruptcy in any one of the Big Three is good for the American economy, you need to either get your head checked or go to college.

BTW, the bailout loan for Chrysler was $1.5 billion in 1979. That's equal to $4.2 billion adjusted for inflation in 2007. Chrysler is now asking for up to $7 billion.

Cokeybill

For fear of being suspended from the forum...I'm out of this 1.
I do thank Frogking for helping to pay for my pension though...
It's just a loan...loan...loan...loan.