Would you like to help GM? Here's how!
11-18-2008, 12:08 PM
#91
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
I would like to vote for Kingfrog for US Senator from Georgia.
The current Republican candidate, Saxby Chambliss, recently said that "We are getting into a recession, I don't know what that term means".
He is not qualified to be a Senator.
Here is my idea of what should happen:
The auto bailout should not occur.
GM would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. IF they need some money for tooling so be it. But not for the UNIONs PUT THE MONEY ON THE ROAD not in pockets. Peole can SEE the money in a Corolla!!!!!
A Receiver Committee consisting of creditors would be appointed to run the company.
A Federal Judge would cancel the union contract.
The Receivers would cut the pay of hourly workers so it would be competitive with the Japanese 3 running plants in the US.
Then GM would stop losing money, but build fewer cars.
GM would keep running at a reduced rate.
3 million people would not lose their jobs.
There would not be a depression.
This country is in a recession now. This is part of the normal business cycle, which is caused by the Federal Reserve raising interest rates to slow the economy. The Fed has moved more quickly in the past year to lower interest rates, but the economy should get better in the 3rd quarter of 2009. The Fed was created in 1913 to lessen the effects of financial panics, which lasted for years.
Mayor Franklin of Atlanta solved the city budget gap of $50 million last week. She reduced the pay of all city workers by 10%, and cut their work week to 36 hours. I predict that in 6 months, they will be working 40 hours a week again, but not get the 10% pay difference restored. This solution will catch on with every government or company with declining revenue.
The current Republican candidate, Saxby Chambliss, recently said that "We are getting into a recession, I don't know what that term means".
He is not qualified to be a Senator.
Here is my idea of what should happen:
The auto bailout should not occur.
GM would file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. IF they need some money for tooling so be it. But not for the UNIONs PUT THE MONEY ON THE ROAD not in pockets. Peole can SEE the money in a Corolla!!!!!
A Receiver Committee consisting of creditors would be appointed to run the company.
A Federal Judge would cancel the union contract.
The Receivers would cut the pay of hourly workers so it would be competitive with the Japanese 3 running plants in the US.
Then GM would stop losing money, but build fewer cars.
GM would keep running at a reduced rate.
3 million people would not lose their jobs.
There would not be a depression.
This country is in a recession now. This is part of the normal business cycle, which is caused by the Federal Reserve raising interest rates to slow the economy. The Fed has moved more quickly in the past year to lower interest rates, but the economy should get better in the 3rd quarter of 2009. The Fed was created in 1913 to lessen the effects of financial panics, which lasted for years.
Mayor Franklin of Atlanta solved the city budget gap of $50 million last week. She reduced the pay of all city workers by 10%, and cut their work week to 36 hours. I predict that in 6 months, they will be working 40 hours a week again, but not get the 10% pay difference restored. This solution will catch on with every government or company with declining revenue.
Someone UNDERSTANDS!!! YAY. People need to live on what they earn and save more. Thats why my imigarant grand parents did. They could have afforeded a lot more but enjoyed life excatly the same and left a few hundred thousand in the bank for my parents.
We are ALREADY in Recession. Anyone who was around in 1980 or even 2002 would realize that. Thousands of jobs have ALREADY been lost, Thats a recession. The stock market is touching its lows thats a recession. The word reccession is being used as a political term to create action. Too late. IF we would just realize we are IN a recession and have been for a few months, people would stop panicking and get away from the politics of PREVENTING a recession and dealing with it.
Not as bad as 1979 but could get there before it gets better. That depends on the new Administration. So far raising taxes and expansing government doesn't sound like they know what has worked before to get OUT of a recession.
I totally agree with you. GM and Ford should file for CHapter 11 REORGANIZATION. The judge will review ALL contracts and deem those null and void that are HARMFUL to a recovery as a is a bankruptcy judge is tasked to to. Creditors will be paid on a new schedule. The old board should be thrown out and new leadership should be put in to guild the company. I would say Romney would be a good choice or someone else with good and tested business skills.
Bankruptcy is not a bad word unless
1. You are the UAW
2. you are a stock holder
3. You are an executive of the company
Many large companies went through it and survives just fine in the LONG term. Short term pain is always worth long term rewards ( I wish people would put $300 a month into savings and buy a used car so that someday they can buy new cars without credit)
Credit IS the enemy
72 month car loans is the enemy Anyone who bought a car on that basis CANNOT afford the car. Period.
Dealers went for the short term numbers and lost a customer for life because anyone with a car loan that long will never hava a decent sown payment.
An HHR looses 30% of oys value the first year...By the fourth year one would be lucky to get $5000 on a trade. But eill owe far more than that.
11-18-2008, 12:35 PM
#92
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
The problem is the UAW has the Democrats by the throats and cares not about the big picture. I hope OBama is as independent from "special interests" as he claims because Peolosi and Reed have so low of a rating Obama will run roughshod over them and their special interests by doing what Reagan did. Appealing directly to the pubic.
The Press will sacre the day lights of of you. Son;t let them As they have proven over and over a gin they have an AGENDA....(See the streets of California when the presses agenda doesn't work)
11-18-2008, 12:42 PM
#93
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
WOW, lots of interesting reading here. Lot's of bases covered. Personally, I think a lot of the problems start with the UAW. But definatly does not end there. The big 3 spend too many years investing in trucks and SUV's. They were the big seller. The overseas market fell right behind. But they still invested in the small car market as well. Yes there are some great cars from the the big 3, but drive by most car lots, who has what lined up along the street to see? And the cars are usually parked in the back or side lots. I have talked with numerous people in the auto industy, my job kinda requires it. They state they don't make any money on a small car, they money is in the trucks. Well, maybe you don't make as much, but if you have an inventory of 200 trucks on the lot, looks to me like you not making it either. Civic's and Corolla still sell. Perception is gonna take it time to go away. What happened 20 years ago still plagues the big 3. But having a lot full of trucks does'nt help either in my opinion.
Someone mentioned the "free trade" agreement. I think that needs to be "reworked" to become a "fair trade" agreement. We give too many breaks to foreign companies and not enough to our own. I think we should charge a country the same "rate" they charge us to sell our products there. I remember back in the mid 90's I was stationed in Korea. A co-worker was lucky enough to bring his Taurus over there and found out that the same car sold for $40k US there (I never verified that). Basically doubled what they sold for here. So why do we sell a Sonata here so cheap? Tax them they way they tax us. Granted, the Sonata is actually built in the US and the HHR we drive is built in Mexico. But the taxes should be based on the home base of the company. Make it "fair" across the board to everything, not just automotive. Then maybe would acutally start getting more businesses here in the US. But that is probably just "crazy" talk......
I mentioned my job works with the auto industry. Well I lease vehicles to federal and state agencies. We buy cars/trucks/tractors/buses every year. I just finished my 2009 acquisition cycle and I just dumped almost 4.8 million back in the US automakers pockets. That was just my customers. Does not count the rest of my coworkers across the country. So I think I help a little.....
I purchases 222 vehicles this round. Even 3 Durango's from the plant that is closing in mid December. Blue Bird in south GA got the most as I had to buy 9 buses.....
Just my .02........
(Someone mentioned the GA Senate race. I can't wait for that to end, both Saxby and Martin do nothing to promote their own campain except but to tell you what the other did in the past, and looks like the same person wrote both ads...)
Someone mentioned the "free trade" agreement. I think that needs to be "reworked" to become a "fair trade" agreement. We give too many breaks to foreign companies and not enough to our own. I think we should charge a country the same "rate" they charge us to sell our products there. I remember back in the mid 90's I was stationed in Korea. A co-worker was lucky enough to bring his Taurus over there and found out that the same car sold for $40k US there (I never verified that). Basically doubled what they sold for here. So why do we sell a Sonata here so cheap? Tax them they way they tax us. Granted, the Sonata is actually built in the US and the HHR we drive is built in Mexico. But the taxes should be based on the home base of the company. Make it "fair" across the board to everything, not just automotive. Then maybe would acutally start getting more businesses here in the US. But that is probably just "crazy" talk......
I mentioned my job works with the auto industry. Well I lease vehicles to federal and state agencies. We buy cars/trucks/tractors/buses every year. I just finished my 2009 acquisition cycle and I just dumped almost 4.8 million back in the US automakers pockets. That was just my customers. Does not count the rest of my coworkers across the country. So I think I help a little.....
I purchases 222 vehicles this round. Even 3 Durango's from the plant that is closing in mid December. Blue Bird in south GA got the most as I had to buy 9 buses..... Just my .02........
(Someone mentioned the GA Senate race. I can't wait for that to end, both Saxby and Martin do nothing to promote their own campain except but to tell you what the other did in the past, and looks like the same person wrote both ads...)
Those companies put their money back on the streets....Like ajames Bond movie. You can see the $100 million on the screen. Not $40 million in a couple actor's pockets and $60 milllion on the screen.......People are not as dumb as some boardroom dorectors want to believe..
11-18-2008, 01:20 PM
#94
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-14-2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,240
If GM dealers put CUSTOMER SATISFACTION FIRST I know they would do better.
My good friend is a Honda Dealer GM. He too is working harder than ever before but he said they have good floor traffic and 90% of the floor traffic is either from current customers or customers that have recommended people to them. They hardly advertise because they have so many satisfied customers!
Now undoubtedly, it is terrible that GMAC stopped dealer's floor plans and that really, really hurts the dealer...it is a coffin nail, and for some, that final coffin nail. Couple this with potential buyers that can't obtain a loan and you have a recipe for disaster. GM should have HELPED their dealers by not cutting off the dealer's floor plans, BUT if it weeds out some of the non-customer centric dealers, then good.
BOTTOM LINE: My friend, the GM at the Honda dealership used to work at a Chevy Dealership a few years ago. He said there is a significant difference between HONDA and GM namely: Honda truly cares about their dealers and the dealer's ability to deliver extremely high customer satisfaction, GM on the other hand, cares about one thing and one thing ONLY: Moving new vehicles. He said to get more allotment at the Chevy store, you had to sell more vehicles, whereas at the HONDA store to get a larger allotment (and the best selling vehicles), you have to sustain an extremely high customer satisfaction index. He said that automobile quality is almost even across all manufacturers so to delineate yourself, you have to take care of the customer and KEEP THEM SATISFIED. Wow! What a concept. And by the way...THIS BUSINESS MODEL WORKS! He is still selling cars in this horrid economy.
GM are you listening??
11-18-2008, 01:40 PM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-17-2006
Location: Dallas, GA
Posts: 6,052
We can't get more for our goods overseas. They get paid less and will not be able to afford them!!! They sell their goods here cheap for the sam reason and guess what........YOU AND I BUY THE LEAST EXPENSIVE good when we can, Hence the GRAND success of WAL MART The AMerican people cannot have it both ways....Woudl you buy a 47" LCD TV at Costco made in Indonesia for $1200 or would you rather pay $2400 for the SAME quality made in Colorado Springs? ......I know let the OTHER guy buy "American you cna't afford it" Sometimes we do pay more for QUALITY/. Thats the real reason the US Automakers are in trouble. Unless you own a Caddy your HHR is not quite the quality build as a RAV 4 or Scion or Versys,
Those companies put their money back on the streets....Like ajames Bond movie. You can see the $100 million on the screen. Not $40 million in a couple actor's pockets and $60 milllion on the screen.......People are not as dumb as some boardroom dorectors want to believe..
Those companies put their money back on the streets....Like ajames Bond movie. You can see the $100 million on the screen. Not $40 million in a couple actor's pockets and $60 milllion on the screen.......People are not as dumb as some boardroom dorectors want to believe..
As far as build quality of my HHR. 2+ years, no problems at all. Not even one brake squeal. So I think it does have the build quality of a Caddy, just not the refinements of a Caddy. Those that think toyota is still the same automaker they were in the 90's is just fooling themselves. With over 1 million recalls a year, yea toyota is the bomb...... But that is that perception. I have over 1250 vehicles in my current fleet, all US (more than just the big 3). For GA we have more than 8000. So I see more than just my personal POV's maintenance. Some people just like to "rag" on the US cars. SOme of the things are just downright stupid IMO. I've seen people complain that the wipers need a 1 second longer delay....
But think it's nothing when the transmission jumps out of gear in their 07 Civic. The dealer will happily take care of that for them. I've owned my share of imports, 4 honda's, 3 mazda's. All of them went into the shop a couple of times for warranty or non warranty repairs. No breakdowns with the HHR. Well I guess there was one, I did have the A/C growl and had that one hose replaced. But that was not a problem, just a noise they took care of. Damn GM...... Would a bailout help the automakers..... If they get it, they better look to what people want/need to buy. And not just today. Sure gas prices have come down to under $2 a gallon, but everyone knows that it will not stay there. The trucks and SUV's everyone wanted 10 years ago, is over for the most part. People got tired of spending $100+ to fill up and realize that only took them about 350 miles.
Build quality of a Rav 4, Scion or a Versa.......lol:
That made my day.
11-18-2008, 03:26 PM
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-12-2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,703
Don't believe everything you read...I experienced it first-hand...from a USAirways perspective anyway. I assume you would think that $55K/year is too much money for a federally licensed aircraft mechanic that keeps planes safe for you & your family? I've done MAJOR structural repairs to aircraft that I am responsible for until that plane is retired...some fly for 35-40 years...try that with something made in china! The airlines saw this as an opportunity to get rid of pensions, reward their executives that made bad decisions, farm out maintenance to facilities in other countries, and all sorts of nastiness that left lots of us unemployed. Next time you fly, think about who could be working on the aircraft you're on...the guy may not even be able to read the maintenance manual!!!
11-18-2008, 05:24 PM
#97
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
Don't believe everything you read...I experienced it first-hand...from a USAirways perspective anyway. I assume you would think that $55K/year is too much money for a federally licensed aircraft mechanic that keeps planes safe for you & your family? I've done MAJOR structural repairs to aircraft that I am responsible for until that plane is retired...some fly for 35-40 years...try that with something made in china! The airlines saw this as an opportunity to get rid of pensions, reward their executives that made bad decisions, farm out maintenance to facilities in other countries, and all sorts of nastiness that left lots of us unemployed. Next time you fly, think about who could be working on the aircraft you're on...the guy may not even be able to read the maintenance manual!!!
Sounds like sour grapes and self importance. Military members get paid far less to do the same jpb willingly. China has not had an Airline crash in a long time and they are not routine. Everyone in the Almerican autoindustry made too much money considering their education and the market. HArely Davidson dealers are closing doors while Honda survives.
YOu cannot buy cheap and expect higher pay from making American products that cannot be sold cheap. and you cannot raise tarriffs to force Americans to buy cars they don;t want, They will already spend more for a Toyota. We bought a USED 2006 toyota with15k miles for $17,000. We could have bought a new American car for that! I learned from the HHR which I love the look of. But the oplastic pieces falling off are not impressive. Anyone else have their rear trunk pull in a draw?
11-18-2008, 07:03 PM
#98
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 11-14-2007
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,240
The airlines saw this as an opportunity to get rid of pensions, reward their executives that made bad decisions, farm out maintenance to facilities in other countries, and all sorts of nastiness that left lots of us unemployed. Next time you fly, think about who could be working on the aircraft you're on...the guy may not even be able to read the maintenance manual!!!
If GM does go into Chapter 11 there will be some uglyness all around. It won't be pretty, BUT they will survive. Personally, I still hold to giving GM the loan...LOAN, not a gift or bailout but a loan that will be repaid.
I love my HHR.
11-18-2008, 07:55 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-12-2006
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,703
Back to topic...if something doesn't change for the better soon for the big three, we're all going to feel it!
11-18-2008, 10:42 PM
#100
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-28-2008
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 355
For all you union haters out there, you do know that unions are one of the primary creaters of the middle class don't you? Thats how they came to be. The wealthy always take care of the wealthy, (IE the financial bailout), but the unions are who brought a reasonable living to the working class. If you don't think so, you didn't study your history very well. One of the reasons union workers look so overpaid and benefitted now is because because of reductions in pay and benefits in non-union sectors, in many cases because the jobs dissappeared overseas. Yeah, China does it cheaper, but how long before the Chinese decide not to work for nothing anymore? Then what, when many Americans struggle at Walmart wages, or service sector jobs with reduced demand and wages? When you can't buy a DVD player for $50 anymore, when car prices go up because there is not the competition from domestics, when the Federal deficit balloons because there are not enough good middle class jobs to support the goverment, THEN WHAT?
BTW, concerning the financial bailout: Where did all those lost TRILLIONS of dollars go? That 401k money that was real green money, out of peoples paychecks, that stock that lost so much money was bought with real money. Those subprime loans for more than a homes value, well, that inflated value was PAID to someone. The fuel price doubling is a big part of what started this big mess, and that was caused by speculators, who do NOTHING but write and cash checks, making a big profit by gambling with our future. There was no shortage of fuel, no supply and demand control, only uncontrolled speculation.
I think we should "loan" the big 3 assistance, with security agreements. Bash all you want, but GM for one has made big changes in both product as well as cost control. Hybrids, hopefully a new electric car, and like our own loved, 29mpg 260 HP HHRSS are proof of progress. Practically every community has a domestic car dealer, so this reaches everywhere.
BTW, concerning the financial bailout: Where did all those lost TRILLIONS of dollars go? That 401k money that was real green money, out of peoples paychecks, that stock that lost so much money was bought with real money. Those subprime loans for more than a homes value, well, that inflated value was PAID to someone. The fuel price doubling is a big part of what started this big mess, and that was caused by speculators, who do NOTHING but write and cash checks, making a big profit by gambling with our future. There was no shortage of fuel, no supply and demand control, only uncontrolled speculation.
I think we should "loan" the big 3 assistance, with security agreements. Bash all you want, but GM for one has made big changes in both product as well as cost control. Hybrids, hopefully a new electric car, and like our own loved, 29mpg 260 HP HHRSS are proof of progress. Practically every community has a domestic car dealer, so this reaches everywhere.