Would you like to help GM? Here's how!
11-24-2008, 07:20 AM
#141
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-01-2008
Location: arlington texas
Posts: 2,762
but in general. you cant tell were in a economic crisis
11-24-2008, 08:49 AM
#142
Founding Member
Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
I don't think I can agree with that. I know too many people who are hurting who have a small business right now. Sales here are off 30% and service work is off 19%. Home sales are down 15%-35% depending on what area of the DFW metroplex you are in. I couldn't say that Dallas is booming.
11-25-2008, 12:36 AM
#144
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
Toyota was a lot tougher on their outside vendors then GM. If GM could save 10 cents on a part they would take the inferior part. Toyota would SPEND the dime to ensure the part was reliable. Huge difference in mentality that started years ago.
As far as Socialism goes were have been there since the New Deal...Social Security is Socialism, Medicare is Socialism....Either you are a Socialist country or you are not. We are and have been and will become more so as those freedoms people have to earn money in unregulated unsocialized and dangerous greedy ways give up their responsibility that goes along with freedom. You cannot have it both ways, You can't regulate and bail out business as a government and call yourself a free nation. Allow the banks to fail, the auto companies to fail. People to fail. Government is not the answer. Never was.
You want total freedom and Capitalism? Give up Social Security and Medicare first, I would have rather have had my 14% self employment net income per year invested in CDs for the past 40 years..Not to mention the 7% I had to pay for my employees..LOL. I would have far more money....far more than Social Security will pay. Unions are socialistic in nature. Everyone gets the same...regardless of their abilities or work ethic.
I don;t understand a nation who won't allow kids to suffer disappointment in schools, Politically correct....Only to be raised not to have the tools to deal with real disappointment that is inevitable in life.
Let GM reorganize, They will come out stronger as well as Ford and maybe even the HEMI laden Chrysler. a Bailout is just that. Bail until the trial where you are finally found guilty anyway.
11-25-2008, 12:46 AM
#145
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
=moose-e-man;330317]From "King frog": But they WON'T COLLAPSE.....Chapter 11 is not a bad thing. The UAW WILL COLLAPSE. We are already deep into a recession and will slowly come out in late 2009. 2002 was worse then this.
10 MILLION jobs were lost in 1979!! We are not near that even with the auto companies problems (so far only 1 million) 3 million jobs would be lost if the automakers failed......still less than 1/2 of 1980's. This "recession" is not nearly as bad as 1979 when interest rates were 20%...try buying ANY or Home of car then.. Inflation was 12%.........I was there bought the T shirt.
But there are thousands of autoworkers STILL employed in this country and those companies will hire MORE workers to make up for the lack of inventory should the US Automakers have to reorganize.
10 MILLION jobs were lost in 1979!! We are not near that even with the auto companies problems (so far only 1 million) 3 million jobs would be lost if the automakers failed......still less than 1/2 of 1980's. This "recession" is not nearly as bad as 1979 when interest rates were 20%...try buying ANY or Home of car then.. Inflation was 12%.........I was there bought the T shirt.
But there are thousands of autoworkers STILL employed in this country and those companies will hire MORE workers to make up for the lack of inventory should the US Automakers have to reorganize.
So don't let the scare tatics of they will go out of business cause you any grief. Will it be easy ? Not at all.
Last week Steve on Fox and Friends said: "In his little town, there are "2 Honda dealers. And there are 25 Chevrolet Dealers"
We drove from Oklahoma to Houston last week and back, I bet there are over a MILLION CARS, BOTH NEW AND USED for sale on lots. This is one of the problems with the automobile industry, over sateration in the USA. And yet they continue to try and increase the productive rate and make in my opion, way to many cars.
My question is: How or what makes, Pelosi, Reed and Barny Frank think that they know how and what to spend my money, my childrens money, my grandchildrens money and their childrens money on, better then I ?
How is it that when elected a sentor, you suddenly know how to handle money better then the American Citizen ?
They should not be getting bonuses. GM and Ford CEOS should be fired their boards should be dismantled and the stockholders should decide the fate of the company. They screwed up. Toyota Honda, even Hyundai are fine,
now what is the difference that makes US automakers in deep and dire trouble in their own country while metric builders are "suffering a downturn"
When you have an honest answer to that question you will have understood the real problem........25 Billion won't fix it.
11-25-2008, 12:56 AM
#146
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
Here is some truths to clear up some of the myths posted here and elsewhere.
This was in todays Detroit Free Press and is not from any of the MFG.
Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.
Reality
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.
Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.
THEN WHY THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES AND CRYING FOR OUR TAX DOLLARS? They should be in hog heaven......
Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.
Reality
The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Powers Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
J D Powers rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
A little late to the party.....Ya think? Plus you have to realize JD Power only rates NEW models. Consumer Reports has a different result and for a far longer period. Their surveys are not directed at new owners.
Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.
Reality
All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.
Then Again Why are they in such deep trouble...they have the best selling cars with the best fuel mileage....Hmmmmm. Something is amiss..
Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.
Reality
None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.
The way it should be and they should not give them a dime until the CEOS have a PLAN... a BUSINESS plan anyone would need begging for money from a bank...any bank for any business.
Myth No. 5
GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.
Reality
The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.
When is the last time you saw a Mercedes Pick up truck or a "Like a rock" BMW crew cab???? GM released a huge HUMMER this year!!!! Chrysler is building HEMI V8s!!
Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.
Reality
The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.
This was in todays Detroit Free Press and is not from any of the MFG.
Myth No. 1
Nobody buys their vehicles.
Reality
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.
Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.
Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.
THEN WHY THE DIRE CONSEQUENCES AND CRYING FOR OUR TAX DOLLARS? They should be in hog heaven......
Myth No. 2
They build unreliable junk.
Reality
The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Powers Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.
J D Powers rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
A little late to the party.....Ya think? Plus you have to realize JD Power only rates NEW models. Consumer Reports has a different result and for a far longer period. Their surveys are not directed at new owners.
Myth No. 3
They build gas-guzzlers.
Reality
All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.
Then Again Why are they in such deep trouble...they have the best selling cars with the best fuel mileage....Hmmmmm. Something is amiss..
Myth No. 4
They already got a $25-billion bailout.
Reality
None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.
The way it should be and they should not give them a dime until the CEOS have a PLAN... a BUSINESS plan anyone would need begging for money from a bank...any bank for any business.
Myth No. 5
GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.
Reality
The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.
When is the last time you saw a Mercedes Pick up truck or a "Like a rock" BMW crew cab???? GM released a huge HUMMER this year!!!! Chrysler is building HEMI V8s!!
Myth No. 6
They don't build hybrids.
Reality
The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.
Again to little too late......Toyota owns the hybrid market. They are tested and have been out for a long time. Before it was "fashionable"
FACT.....American automakers expenses exceed their profits....Period. Now figure out why Foreign hired American autoworkers in the US are not panicked. Betcha don;t read that in any UAW newslwtter ot Detroit Free Press.
Last edited by Kingfrog; 11-25-2008 at 10:12 AM.
11-25-2008, 08:12 AM
#147
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-08-2008
Location: United States of Texas
Posts: 505
The Chysler Hemi and Hummers are selling
The Chrysler Hemi and the Hummers and pickups are selling. Sure sales may be off some but there is still a market for them and the companies should sell them if that is what the customers want. Now many of us including myself are looking for more fuel effecient cars. When gas was $1 per gallon I was very happy with my one ton, four door dually. It drove nice and pulled everyting I needed it to. When gas went up to $4 per gallon I changed my opinions some. Now I think the more effecient cars will be in more demand and I think the big three will go after that market stronger. Even with the gas prices back down some I think all of America and the manufactorors have got the message. One thing you have to think about is gas prices were reasonable for years and then it suddenly went through the roof, nobody was prepared or expecting that.
I was able to save much more per month on gas than my car payment would have been and I like my little HHR.
I was able to save much more per month on gas than my car payment would have been and I like my little HHR.