Would you like to help GM? Here's how!
11-16-2008, 09:31 PM
#41
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
Sorry I like my HHR but NO bailouts. Its no secret to anyone but those who live in Michigan If the US automakers do not survive, the UAW will finally realize they bargained themselves out of jobs. I don't think American built Nissan or Honda autoworkers would want the UAW near their plant. Toyota does';t want them either. Their employees are happy with a compensation package worth $96K a year....
These are all US Autoworkers salaries.
According to Forbes:
Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).
Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/...of-market.html
UAW pay advantage no longer true
One of the "perks" to being a UAW member was higher salaries as compared to those at (import) factories. Now, according to the Detroit Free Press, that may no longer be true, as foreign automakers are offering bonuses. So the old UAW argument of higher salaries going to UAW workers is no longer a selling point in terms of joining the UAW.
For example, Toyota Motor Corp... gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, Ky., plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...nger-true.html
The Detroit automakers' woes did not stem from the global financial crisis. They began losing billions of dollars during a healthy economy three years ago, continuing to produce gas-guzzling SUVs while Japanese, Korean and German companies built fuel-efficient and hybrid compact cars in North American plants, which now number 16.
"They are producing high-cost products that consumers don't want to buy," Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, said of the Detroit companies. "And so now we have Washington on the verge of giving them a bailout simply because we have all heard of them and they have high-priced lobbyists
http://www.starbulletin.com/editoria...o_compete.html
"According to analysts that follow Japanese automakers, the Toyota Prius, king of hybrid cars, has become a strongly profitable vehicle for Toyota. It also helps drive consumers into Toyota dealerships.
Yet, not one US automaker has concrete plans to challenge the Prius".
Go figure.......
These are all US Autoworkers salaries.
According to Forbes:
Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).
Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/...of-market.html
UAW pay advantage no longer true
One of the "perks" to being a UAW member was higher salaries as compared to those at (import) factories. Now, according to the Detroit Free Press, that may no longer be true, as foreign automakers are offering bonuses. So the old UAW argument of higher salaries going to UAW workers is no longer a selling point in terms of joining the UAW.
For example, Toyota Motor Corp... gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, Ky., plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year.
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...nger-true.html
The Detroit automakers' woes did not stem from the global financial crisis. They began losing billions of dollars during a healthy economy three years ago, continuing to produce gas-guzzling SUVs while Japanese, Korean and German companies built fuel-efficient and hybrid compact cars in North American plants, which now number 16.
"They are producing high-cost products that consumers don't want to buy," Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, said of the Detroit companies. "And so now we have Washington on the verge of giving them a bailout simply because we have all heard of them and they have high-priced lobbyists
http://www.starbulletin.com/editoria...o_compete.html
"According to analysts that follow Japanese automakers, the Toyota Prius, king of hybrid cars, has become a strongly profitable vehicle for Toyota. It also helps drive consumers into Toyota dealerships.
Yet, not one US automaker has concrete plans to challenge the Prius".
Go figure.......
11-16-2008, 10:32 PM
#42
Founding Member
Join Date: 11-23-2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,210
11-16-2008, 11:36 PM
#43
Banned
Join Date: 08-25-2007
Location: Myrtle Beach SC
Posts: 488
We have a 2006 Rav 4 and a 2006 HHR guess which one has had the steering column replaced An ignition issue leaking moon roof...on and on
They both have the same miles and the Toyota has NEVER been in the shop, except for oil changes.
The US automakers will have to reorganize. There will be a recession and pain and recovery. $25 Billion will not save the day, just prolong the agony. Americans cannot be forced to buy a Chevy. Its up to the Automakers to make a product people actually want to buy.
As far as ancillary services. Those who cannot buy American will have to buy Forign and there will be as many cars on the roads in five years as there are today. Just less American labels, The foreign automakers will begin making parts here and fill the holes. The only thing will be the end of the UAW. and thats not such a bad thing. They got greedy. ALL American autoworkers would not join that union even though they get paid less. Sometimes you have to consider the company and its well being.
I'll bet most UAW workers wished they were working in a Honda plant...right about now. However the American auto industry is not going away. They are going to get smaller, leaner and meaner. GM will survive, Ford will survive, Chrysler may go the way of AMC.........
Its up to the UAW to even the playing field with the rest of US Autoworkers. If they don't Americans will protest and not buy their cars. After all Americans are the ones being asked to pay their tab. Americans have no sympathy for HS educated people earning $140K in total compensation a year screwing in a door handle....that will fall off in less then a year on the road,. .
11-17-2008, 12:14 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: 02-19-2008
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Posts: 129
Its up to the UAW to even the playing field with the rest of US Autoworkers.
It's like "they owe me" must have been their first sentence as babies.
11-17-2008, 04:25 AM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-14-2006
Location: Waterford, MI
Posts: 230
FYI: I live in southeast Michigan and currently work for a tier 1 supplier but have also worked with two of the big three.
Reading the thread, I gather most people just do not like corporate GM and the UAW, and I would have a hard time supporting either one of them since together they have managed themselves in to this position. My opinion is, outside of Bob Lutz, that GM management is incompetent. They just do not realize it. Look at Ford, they are not in bad shape right now because they pro-acted and the Ford family put in place competent management a while back.
I will say one thing about the UAW, they set the stage for other American manufacturing workers to earn a livable wage, they just continued to get greedier as time passed.
The impact is, if the American automotive industry goes, so does the infrastructure and the jobs that go with it. Do not think of automotive as the executives and the UAW, but the millions of others that work for honest wages from the engineers to the maintenance people that take care of our buildings. The people that cut our hair, the waitress, and it goes on.
Reading the thread, I gather most people just do not like corporate GM and the UAW, and I would have a hard time supporting either one of them since together they have managed themselves in to this position. My opinion is, outside of Bob Lutz, that GM management is incompetent. They just do not realize it. Look at Ford, they are not in bad shape right now because they pro-acted and the Ford family put in place competent management a while back.
I will say one thing about the UAW, they set the stage for other American manufacturing workers to earn a livable wage, they just continued to get greedier as time passed.
The impact is, if the American automotive industry goes, so does the infrastructure and the jobs that go with it. Do not think of automotive as the executives and the UAW, but the millions of others that work for honest wages from the engineers to the maintenance people that take care of our buildings. The people that cut our hair, the waitress, and it goes on.
11-17-2008, 05:14 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-12-2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 156
11-17-2008, 06:36 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: 04-11-2006
Location: Eufaula, Oklahoma
Posts: 166
Bail Out ?
What have "THEY" done to make the playing field more level? Fact is the auto industry has Increased workers hourley wage, health care and retirement packages based on both actual sales and projected sales and grouth for every contract. Its up to the UAW, workers and management to even the playing field with the rest of U.S. Autoworkers.
I see now where the upper management will not accept a bonus the year.
Big Deal. Very small token.
Lets see a large % cut in pay and perks across the labor force, includng upper management.
11-17-2008, 09:03 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-28-2008
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 1,115
[QUOTE=Kingfrog;328568]Propaganda.
We have a 2006 Rav 4 and a 2006 HHR guess which one has had the steering column replaced An ignition issue leaking moon roof...on and on
They both have the same miles and the Toyota has NEVER been in the shop, except for oil changes.
QUOTE]
HHR is Mexican built
...American built, maybe those problems wouldn't have occurred.
We have a 2006 Rav 4 and a 2006 HHR guess which one has had the steering column replaced An ignition issue leaking moon roof...on and on
They both have the same miles and the Toyota has NEVER been in the shop, except for oil changes.
QUOTE]
HHR is Mexican built
...American built, maybe those problems wouldn't have occurred.
11-17-2008, 09:24 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
Gee, so If my car was not built in Canada and made in the States I would not had issue with it too?
Hmmmm.....
I think you will find faults are more a problem of how the car is designed and the model vs who is putting on the parts in what country.
For the record my HHR has not had any issues to this point and has been better than many past cars I have owned. I have no issues with build quality.
Now that is not to say I may have an issue with design quality later.
Hmmmm.....
I think you will find faults are more a problem of how the car is designed and the model vs who is putting on the parts in what country.
For the record my HHR has not had any issues to this point and has been better than many past cars I have owned. I have no issues with build quality.
Now that is not to say I may have an issue with design quality later.
11-17-2008, 09:32 AM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-28-2008
Location: Oshawa
Posts: 1,115
Sorry I like my HHR but NO bailouts. Its no secret to anyone but those who live in Michigan If the US automakers do not survive, the UAW will finally realize they bargained themselves out of jobs. I don't think American built Nissan or Honda autoworkers would want the UAW near their plant. Toyota does';t want them either. Their employees are happy with a compensation package worth $96K a year....
These are all US Autoworkers salaries.
According to Forbes:
Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).
Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
Go figure.......
These are all US Autoworkers salaries.
According to Forbes:
Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers, 2006.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).
Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D. (see graph above, click to enlarge), and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
Go figure.......
A good job to build a good product for good pay is not a crime. The companies that sign and agree to the contracts obviously think that the companies can afford the negotiated costs. Did the company execs miscalculate? Probably.
But, back to the Ph.D.s, what makes anyone with a degree figure that they are worth a bag full of cash. Just because of the costs to get educated. Many professionals in other fields make incredible amounts of money with no education
(ie.- actors, athletes) What's the reason there...our stupidity to pay large sums of money to go to plays, movie theatres or sporting events.I guess everyone has their own reasoning to make as much as they can.