Rotor and Pad recomendation
09-26-2012, 05:54 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
#1 you have a 99% chance they are not warped. The most common and misunderstood issues are two other causes. one is Rotor Thickness Variation or RTV as most MFG call it. THis happens when the hub bearing has more than .002 of play and lets the rotor wobble and bounce unevenly off the pads. It wears the rotor in a different thickness that causes the mistake of thinking they are warped.
#2 is that you have pad material embedded in post on the rotor and it will make them grab. This is often cause by mechanics and people not bedding or burnishing the pads when they are installed. The factory does not do it and most mechanics fail to do it. What happens is material can stick to one spoit on the rotor and give a pulse or grab as you slow down. Many mistake this too for warp. While cast iron can warp it will not warp much before it cracks and generally is seldom the problem. People cut the rotors and only solve the symptom and never solve the real cause.
Most major and racing brake MFG will back this up in their tech facts section on their web site. They also will explain how to bed or seat brakes. This varys from company to comapany and generally involves a series of hard stops after install. The number of stops and speed depends on the company.
With that said the best thing you can do is this.
I just did the brakes for my SS and this is what I used. Note where I work we sell the best of the best and can use nearly any brand I want.
The rotors are an easy one. THe best rotor is a solid rotor and I use Bendix. THe fact is the holes and diples really do nothing and are cosmetic at best. The solted rotors will clean the pads but do not cool them. The key to a rotor is to draw and absorbe heat from the pads and holes just remove metal and create less of a heat sink. Many MFG in fine print do not recomend drilled or dimples rotors for track time and for street use only.
Years ago the holes were to out gas pads and the new non organic materials do not need out gasses. Also many years ago drilled them to cut unsprung weight in a race car. but they also tossed them out after the race.
I use Bendix but any quality solid rotor will do. Not if you like the dimpled or sloted they are good for looks but cost more and will not improver braking.
As for pads use a good non metalic pad. One with a high ceramic content will provide less dust and better heat transfer. I am using the EBC Red pads on mine and they are great. They have a breakin material that beds the pads and once it is worn off the dust is much much less than my factory pads. I have gone to using Hawk and EBC on all my cars.
Note these are not cheap pads but you get what you pay for. While a pad may be called ceramic the key is how much ceramic material does it have and how much carbon filler does it have? There are not regulations on this and while the EBC may have a high ceramic low carbon filler content other cheaper pads may have a higher carbon filler vs ceramic material.
If you are easy on brakes the cheaper pads may work fine but they will leave more dust vs the higher ceramic content.
Keep away from the EBC yellow pads as they cost even more and need heat to make them work. THey are for track time and not so much street use. The Green pads work fine but do have a little more dust. The new Blue pads are kind of the over kill for street and track and unless you run laps you do not need them.
The bottom line here is buy the cheaper solid Bendix rotors and use the extra money from the rotors and buy a good quality pad. I use Hawk and EBC but Bendix, Raybestos and other MFG have good pads too just they are not always the cheapest ones they sell. You get what you pay for.
I attend many Brake training classes and work with most of the MFG on warranty issues where I work so this is not my opinion but what I have been taught. Some may want to differ but you look at some of the best racing brakes in the world and non or drilled or dimpled. A few may have some lines to clean the rubber from the track off the hot rotors but that is all.
My recomendations on brands are not the only ones but they are my choice. There are others that are nearly as good but the key is solid rotors and high quality pads. Then install and bed or seat them in.
#2 is that you have pad material embedded in post on the rotor and it will make them grab. This is often cause by mechanics and people not bedding or burnishing the pads when they are installed. The factory does not do it and most mechanics fail to do it. What happens is material can stick to one spoit on the rotor and give a pulse or grab as you slow down. Many mistake this too for warp. While cast iron can warp it will not warp much before it cracks and generally is seldom the problem. People cut the rotors and only solve the symptom and never solve the real cause.
Most major and racing brake MFG will back this up in their tech facts section on their web site. They also will explain how to bed or seat brakes. This varys from company to comapany and generally involves a series of hard stops after install. The number of stops and speed depends on the company.
With that said the best thing you can do is this.
I just did the brakes for my SS and this is what I used. Note where I work we sell the best of the best and can use nearly any brand I want.
The rotors are an easy one. THe best rotor is a solid rotor and I use Bendix. THe fact is the holes and diples really do nothing and are cosmetic at best. The solted rotors will clean the pads but do not cool them. The key to a rotor is to draw and absorbe heat from the pads and holes just remove metal and create less of a heat sink. Many MFG in fine print do not recomend drilled or dimples rotors for track time and for street use only.
Years ago the holes were to out gas pads and the new non organic materials do not need out gasses. Also many years ago drilled them to cut unsprung weight in a race car. but they also tossed them out after the race.
I use Bendix but any quality solid rotor will do. Not if you like the dimpled or sloted they are good for looks but cost more and will not improver braking.
As for pads use a good non metalic pad. One with a high ceramic content will provide less dust and better heat transfer. I am using the EBC Red pads on mine and they are great. They have a breakin material that beds the pads and once it is worn off the dust is much much less than my factory pads. I have gone to using Hawk and EBC on all my cars.
Note these are not cheap pads but you get what you pay for. While a pad may be called ceramic the key is how much ceramic material does it have and how much carbon filler does it have? There are not regulations on this and while the EBC may have a high ceramic low carbon filler content other cheaper pads may have a higher carbon filler vs ceramic material.
If you are easy on brakes the cheaper pads may work fine but they will leave more dust vs the higher ceramic content.
Keep away from the EBC yellow pads as they cost even more and need heat to make them work. THey are for track time and not so much street use. The Green pads work fine but do have a little more dust. The new Blue pads are kind of the over kill for street and track and unless you run laps you do not need them.
The bottom line here is buy the cheaper solid Bendix rotors and use the extra money from the rotors and buy a good quality pad. I use Hawk and EBC but Bendix, Raybestos and other MFG have good pads too just they are not always the cheapest ones they sell. You get what you pay for.
I attend many Brake training classes and work with most of the MFG on warranty issues where I work so this is not my opinion but what I have been taught. Some may want to differ but you look at some of the best racing brakes in the world and non or drilled or dimpled. A few may have some lines to clean the rubber from the track off the hot rotors but that is all.
My recomendations on brands are not the only ones but they are my choice. There are others that are nearly as good but the key is solid rotors and high quality pads. Then install and bed or seat them in.
09-26-2012, 08:42 AM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 06-07-2011
Location: SE Mich
Posts: 2,180
I need a LIKE button... I am a fan of all the same things. Solid rotors and do not skimp on the pads! You also need to make sure the pad you choose will work for your planned usage. Sport pads like Hawk and EBC have a range of materials available, and some of them are for track-type situations where you need heat to make them work, and they hold up better under those conditions. You will not generate enough heat for that type of pad in normal street driving.
I have used both EBC and Hawk, and prefer Hawk myself, but there are others out there that have similar sport-oriented pads like Carbotech, Ferodo (OEM for SS pads), and Porterfield. If you are not competing with them, many of these may be overkill (or over spend is more like it).
So, yeah, I just said all the same stuff.... I agree fully with Hyper, except that when I had EBC Reds, I didn't like them in the winter. They don't like sub-zero weather... Hawk HPS were much better in the cold, but also way dustier. HP-Plus are great for autocross, but most people wouldn't like the noise on their dd. There are always tradeoffs, but these pads are available for most cars, so there's a lot of online discussion and comparison out there, if you want to try and compare products.
I have used both EBC and Hawk, and prefer Hawk myself, but there are others out there that have similar sport-oriented pads like Carbotech, Ferodo (OEM for SS pads), and Porterfield. If you are not competing with them, many of these may be overkill (or over spend is more like it).
So, yeah, I just said all the same stuff.... I agree fully with Hyper, except that when I had EBC Reds, I didn't like them in the winter. They don't like sub-zero weather... Hawk HPS were much better in the cold, but also way dustier. HP-Plus are great for autocross, but most people wouldn't like the noise on their dd. There are always tradeoffs, but these pads are available for most cars, so there's a lot of online discussion and comparison out there, if you want to try and compare products.
09-26-2012, 01:25 PM
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 08-19-2007
Location: So.Cal.
Posts: 829
Great info. The problem started about 5k miles after I changed the front pads (60k) to a Ceramic and I thought I had bedded them in, but that could be the issue as well. I'm at 70k miles and the rears are in need of replacement as well. I bought a reliable brand, same as I have on my Vette and very little dust. Off this weekend and may try out the info you provided. Thanks for the detail.
09-26-2012, 02:27 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
I need a LIKE button... I am a fan of all the same things. Solid rotors and do not skimp on the pads! You also need to make sure the pad you choose will work for your planned usage. Sport pads like Hawk and EBC have a range of materials available, and some of them are for track-type situations where you need heat to make them work, and they hold up better under those conditions. You will not generate enough heat for that type of pad in normal street driving.
I have used both EBC and Hawk, and prefer Hawk myself, but there are others out there that have similar sport-oriented pads like Carbotech, Ferodo (OEM for SS pads), and Porterfield. If you are not competing with them, many of these may be overkill (or over spend is more like it).
So, yeah, I just said all the same stuff.... I agree fully with Hyper, except that when I had EBC Reds, I didn't like them in the winter. They don't like sub-zero weather... Hawk HPS were much better in the cold, but also way dustier. HP-Plus are great for autocross, but most people wouldn't like the noise on their dd. There are always tradeoffs, but these pads are available for most cars, so there's a lot of online discussion and comparison out there, if you want to try and compare products.
I have used both EBC and Hawk, and prefer Hawk myself, but there are others out there that have similar sport-oriented pads like Carbotech, Ferodo (OEM for SS pads), and Porterfield. If you are not competing with them, many of these may be overkill (or over spend is more like it).
So, yeah, I just said all the same stuff.... I agree fully with Hyper, except that when I had EBC Reds, I didn't like them in the winter. They don't like sub-zero weather... Hawk HPS were much better in the cold, but also way dustier. HP-Plus are great for autocross, but most people wouldn't like the noise on their dd. There are always tradeoffs, but these pads are available for most cars, so there's a lot of online discussion and comparison out there, if you want to try and compare products.
I will be ok with cold pads vs the dust. I have counted the days till I would replace the OE pads.
09-26-2012, 06:19 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 07-05-2008
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 5,464
