Ben-HHR
08-11-2009, 03:26 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-26-2009
Location: miami beach
Posts: 68
Ben-HHR
Hi,
As my wife and I prepare to purchase our HHR (non-panel non-SS) I have a few questions for which I could not find definitive answers after searching the boards (and others) for the past few weeks. I’m sorry for the long post, but this has been a work in progress as instead of making multiple threads, since I have not been able to register (AOL/AIM mail does not receive the server messages - they don't even go to spam - I had to switch), so I have just lumped them together. So I apologize in advance for the long post.
My questions are below so if you want to skip the fluff please scroll down.
Otherwise before I ask, I want to explain my car-background so you can understand my motivation and goals. My current daily driver is an Aprilia Scarabeo but we also play roulette with the other immediate/extended family vehicles such as a trailblazer, an LS430 a dodge caravan, an X5, a maxima and some limited time from cars from work (our Range Rover company cars) and some extra time in the boss’ escalade and F430. Of course there are the various rentals of vehicles and time spent in friends cars that one encounters in life. With all of the exposure, our needs are specific, and we know what we are supposedly ‘giving up’ vs. a more ‘sophisticated’ car.
The reason we picked the HHR after searching just about everything new, old, and not yet out, is simply cost, but there are other reasons (as we obviously didn’t want to just get the cheapest thing on 4 wheels).
The biggest ‘need’ being it has a real back seat that is not restrictive of its passengers, our daughter can see clearly out the windows from her car-seat (and it is easy to put her in and take her out), and a real trunk that holds our stroller with room to spare for other things without encroaching into the passenger space - this last item is the big ‘fail’ item for any 3-box sedan or any hatchback that isn’t squared off.
We could have simply shopped for a regular wagon, but there are 2 problems – price, selection/availability, and overall cost of ownership.
This isn’t a blind purchase, we have gone to the rental agency (props to Avis) to see what it would be like to live with the car with no pressure from a salesman and we like it. It’s not our most favorite vehicle in the world but it works well for its intended purpose and again its cost of ownership and how much vehicle you get for that dollar made it the winner.
The beauty of the HHR is that, when bought used, you are so low to its price plateau that since we plan to drive it till the wheels fall off, there is little depreciation (and my trade-in makes for no car payments).
Otherwise, even though its made in mexico, its an ‘american’ car, it’s a chevy so you can fix it with a hammer, and its flex fuel and since E85 is available by me, - getting 108mpg is nice. Also there is a high availability of replacement parts/aftermarket at a low price.
Our competition was really the 3-row compact cars – the Rondo and Mazda5 (cost kept us out of a Taurus X…) – and we are upset that the Orlando is not available used (heck its not coming out for 2 years). The Journey was a close second with cost/content ratio hurting it (approximately 100% more for a similar vehicle with a 3rd row) and in 3rd place Equinox/Torrent/XL7.
Our 5 passenger wagon competition was the Honda Element, Scion xB and Pontiac Vibe (the Soul, Fit, and Cube do not have a usable trunk (at the above criteria) when the seats are up)- but none of those cars had the price advantage, the ethanol ability, nor the temperature-cool interior due to the lack of tumblehome that this car has plus its privacy tinting (which admittedly makes the interior a bit dour except in possibly the beige trim) – even though the competition may have had better NVH or refinement in materials in certain areas.
This car is a family vehicle. So simplicity, refinement/comfort, safety, and inexpensive/infrequent repair are key – not power. If I can make the HHR as close to a buick/lexus as possible that is the goal (without handling being wallowy)
These are issues in my questions below.
1) what are the definitive differences between the LS, 1LT and 2LT besides the engine, that are not bolt-on options. i.e. I don't mean cosmetic stuff as running boards can be tacked on, also better audio, or different seats. Suspension? Remote Start? Bluetooth? Are there safety features that are left out/missing in different trims? Color combinations? I can always put on the leather wheel from the 2LT on an LS right? In sum can I upgrade to basically a 2LT with an LS as a start?
2) what are the known issues with components that are prone to fail/engineering cost cutting? Places that wear out first? I hope by 09 they got the bugs out but there is always something. What are common issues? Does the paint hold up? (I’ve read about steering noise and leaks, but what else?) What maintenance regimen is to be carefully looked at (timing belt at 60k no wiggle room? Oil changes at 3k or 5k or when the computer says so? front or rear brakes prone to wearing early? Etc.)
3) What are the most popular ‘upgrades’ for the experience? For example, stainless brake lines generally improve brake feel without compromising somewhere else. People like to go rear disc but on a street car this isn’t relevant. Better pads/tires will help stopping distance for less money and hassle except on a track where drums can overheat/fade. Is there a better OEM radio that is plug and play. I know on-star and Bluetooth make for complications. NAV? Tailgate carpeting is popular. Lens for windshield to see traffic lights? Larger rims may not be necessary as long as there is sufficient sidewall to retain some elasticity – of course if we find a model that has hubcaps that will be the first thing to go/personalize. Twitchy steering and a harsh ride are not the goal for a family hauler. I’ve seen people do the grille bar removal to a nice effect with some mesh backing. Are there better sun visors for the interior? Stronger door handles? Things like that.
4) One of the disappointments is the plastic of the dash/doors. It looks like it can scratch easily and stay visibly scratched. Has anyone done a leather/vinyl install or suede/alcantara? What risks are there to future interior longevity if taking off the cowl?
5) Which suspension gives the best ride without sacrificing travel, and safety/road holding? A dropped stance is not necessary. Are sway bars necessary to keep it tight – if so which end? I’m looking for slightly softer than a ‘german’ road feel, not track ready and not Lincoln town car.
6) Where does most of the road noise come from? Wind noise cannot be fixed, and engine noise is pleasantly subdued already. I’m only looking for a 5db gain max over what is already a nicely quiet car and am not looking for not vault quiet for serious classical music listening - besides the windows/windshield are not being changed. If I am changing dash parts or pulling the carpet, or changing suspension, where can I add sound deadening that is the most effective in this model?
7) What other GM parts from different years/models can be fitted for an improvement in that particular area (brakes? Suspension? Interior pieces? Engine cooling? Etc.) i.e. Can a corvette wheel be fitted? (I know the answer is yes and no, the wheel fits, but the splines need to be re-machined) Can the HHR wheel with leather and audio controls be put on a model that didn’t originally have one and retain button functionality? The radio is already a parts-bin piece.
8) Superficially, one of the only places I feel the HHR styling gets ‘lazy’ is the headlights. I have not seen any actual headlight changes save for some masks which do not aid in the design. Are there any headlight mods at all, or do people basically leave it alone (besides smoking the lens or going HID).
9) I have a bad back and have sat comfortably in the cloth HHR’s, are the leather seats any better from a support/keeps its shape standpoint?
10) My wife likes to name her things. We picked Ben-HHR (ben-hurr – chariot movie with kirk douglas), has this been taken yet?
The reason I ask all this, is really in question 1, while some items are available in an LT, it may be fiscally prudent to simply get an LS and get the LT part for less than the cost of buying the LT outright. However, if I sacrifice other things in the process, it makes sense to go LT as I can kill 2 birds with one stone.
(the difference seems to be around $2k but that could be in asking prices and there may be more negotiation in the LS – I’m looking at an 09 at the oldest and I’m maxing out at $11k OTD/all included which is not unrealistic as a perfect LT with everything I want except missing the USB is $12k and hopefully when the ‘10’s come out the 09’s will be in range).
The other questions apply to an LT anyway, so if I can get the features I want without paying more than necessary (a cost that will not be recouped at the end-of-life) that is preferred.
Thanks,
Seth
As my wife and I prepare to purchase our HHR (non-panel non-SS) I have a few questions for which I could not find definitive answers after searching the boards (and others) for the past few weeks. I’m sorry for the long post, but this has been a work in progress as instead of making multiple threads, since I have not been able to register (AOL/AIM mail does not receive the server messages - they don't even go to spam - I had to switch), so I have just lumped them together. So I apologize in advance for the long post.
My questions are below so if you want to skip the fluff please scroll down.
Otherwise before I ask, I want to explain my car-background so you can understand my motivation and goals. My current daily driver is an Aprilia Scarabeo but we also play roulette with the other immediate/extended family vehicles such as a trailblazer, an LS430 a dodge caravan, an X5, a maxima and some limited time from cars from work (our Range Rover company cars) and some extra time in the boss’ escalade and F430. Of course there are the various rentals of vehicles and time spent in friends cars that one encounters in life. With all of the exposure, our needs are specific, and we know what we are supposedly ‘giving up’ vs. a more ‘sophisticated’ car.
The reason we picked the HHR after searching just about everything new, old, and not yet out, is simply cost, but there are other reasons (as we obviously didn’t want to just get the cheapest thing on 4 wheels).
The biggest ‘need’ being it has a real back seat that is not restrictive of its passengers, our daughter can see clearly out the windows from her car-seat (and it is easy to put her in and take her out), and a real trunk that holds our stroller with room to spare for other things without encroaching into the passenger space - this last item is the big ‘fail’ item for any 3-box sedan or any hatchback that isn’t squared off.
We could have simply shopped for a regular wagon, but there are 2 problems – price, selection/availability, and overall cost of ownership.
This isn’t a blind purchase, we have gone to the rental agency (props to Avis) to see what it would be like to live with the car with no pressure from a salesman and we like it. It’s not our most favorite vehicle in the world but it works well for its intended purpose and again its cost of ownership and how much vehicle you get for that dollar made it the winner.
The beauty of the HHR is that, when bought used, you are so low to its price plateau that since we plan to drive it till the wheels fall off, there is little depreciation (and my trade-in makes for no car payments).
Otherwise, even though its made in mexico, its an ‘american’ car, it’s a chevy so you can fix it with a hammer, and its flex fuel and since E85 is available by me, - getting 108mpg is nice. Also there is a high availability of replacement parts/aftermarket at a low price.
Our competition was really the 3-row compact cars – the Rondo and Mazda5 (cost kept us out of a Taurus X…) – and we are upset that the Orlando is not available used (heck its not coming out for 2 years). The Journey was a close second with cost/content ratio hurting it (approximately 100% more for a similar vehicle with a 3rd row) and in 3rd place Equinox/Torrent/XL7.
Our 5 passenger wagon competition was the Honda Element, Scion xB and Pontiac Vibe (the Soul, Fit, and Cube do not have a usable trunk (at the above criteria) when the seats are up)- but none of those cars had the price advantage, the ethanol ability, nor the temperature-cool interior due to the lack of tumblehome that this car has plus its privacy tinting (which admittedly makes the interior a bit dour except in possibly the beige trim) – even though the competition may have had better NVH or refinement in materials in certain areas.
This car is a family vehicle. So simplicity, refinement/comfort, safety, and inexpensive/infrequent repair are key – not power. If I can make the HHR as close to a buick/lexus as possible that is the goal (without handling being wallowy)
These are issues in my questions below.
1) what are the definitive differences between the LS, 1LT and 2LT besides the engine, that are not bolt-on options. i.e. I don't mean cosmetic stuff as running boards can be tacked on, also better audio, or different seats. Suspension? Remote Start? Bluetooth? Are there safety features that are left out/missing in different trims? Color combinations? I can always put on the leather wheel from the 2LT on an LS right? In sum can I upgrade to basically a 2LT with an LS as a start?
2) what are the known issues with components that are prone to fail/engineering cost cutting? Places that wear out first? I hope by 09 they got the bugs out but there is always something. What are common issues? Does the paint hold up? (I’ve read about steering noise and leaks, but what else?) What maintenance regimen is to be carefully looked at (timing belt at 60k no wiggle room? Oil changes at 3k or 5k or when the computer says so? front or rear brakes prone to wearing early? Etc.)
3) What are the most popular ‘upgrades’ for the experience? For example, stainless brake lines generally improve brake feel without compromising somewhere else. People like to go rear disc but on a street car this isn’t relevant. Better pads/tires will help stopping distance for less money and hassle except on a track where drums can overheat/fade. Is there a better OEM radio that is plug and play. I know on-star and Bluetooth make for complications. NAV? Tailgate carpeting is popular. Lens for windshield to see traffic lights? Larger rims may not be necessary as long as there is sufficient sidewall to retain some elasticity – of course if we find a model that has hubcaps that will be the first thing to go/personalize. Twitchy steering and a harsh ride are not the goal for a family hauler. I’ve seen people do the grille bar removal to a nice effect with some mesh backing. Are there better sun visors for the interior? Stronger door handles? Things like that.
4) One of the disappointments is the plastic of the dash/doors. It looks like it can scratch easily and stay visibly scratched. Has anyone done a leather/vinyl install or suede/alcantara? What risks are there to future interior longevity if taking off the cowl?
5) Which suspension gives the best ride without sacrificing travel, and safety/road holding? A dropped stance is not necessary. Are sway bars necessary to keep it tight – if so which end? I’m looking for slightly softer than a ‘german’ road feel, not track ready and not Lincoln town car.
6) Where does most of the road noise come from? Wind noise cannot be fixed, and engine noise is pleasantly subdued already. I’m only looking for a 5db gain max over what is already a nicely quiet car and am not looking for not vault quiet for serious classical music listening - besides the windows/windshield are not being changed. If I am changing dash parts or pulling the carpet, or changing suspension, where can I add sound deadening that is the most effective in this model?
7) What other GM parts from different years/models can be fitted for an improvement in that particular area (brakes? Suspension? Interior pieces? Engine cooling? Etc.) i.e. Can a corvette wheel be fitted? (I know the answer is yes and no, the wheel fits, but the splines need to be re-machined) Can the HHR wheel with leather and audio controls be put on a model that didn’t originally have one and retain button functionality? The radio is already a parts-bin piece.
8) Superficially, one of the only places I feel the HHR styling gets ‘lazy’ is the headlights. I have not seen any actual headlight changes save for some masks which do not aid in the design. Are there any headlight mods at all, or do people basically leave it alone (besides smoking the lens or going HID).
9) I have a bad back and have sat comfortably in the cloth HHR’s, are the leather seats any better from a support/keeps its shape standpoint?
10) My wife likes to name her things. We picked Ben-HHR (ben-hurr – chariot movie with kirk douglas), has this been taken yet?
The reason I ask all this, is really in question 1, while some items are available in an LT, it may be fiscally prudent to simply get an LS and get the LT part for less than the cost of buying the LT outright. However, if I sacrifice other things in the process, it makes sense to go LT as I can kill 2 birds with one stone.
(the difference seems to be around $2k but that could be in asking prices and there may be more negotiation in the LS – I’m looking at an 09 at the oldest and I’m maxing out at $11k OTD/all included which is not unrealistic as a perfect LT with everything I want except missing the USB is $12k and hopefully when the ‘10’s come out the 09’s will be in range).
The other questions apply to an LT anyway, so if I can get the features I want without paying more than necessary (a cost that will not be recouped at the end-of-life) that is preferred.
Thanks,
Seth
08-11-2009, 03:59 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: 12-20-2008
Location: durham north carolina
Posts: 835
2lt
i think you would be happy with the 2lt...i don't understand why anyone would buy a car without most all the options...it is big investment , so why not get what you want?..my 08 2lt 2.4 auto has 92,000 miles , my leather seats still look and fell like new , + they have heat , and lots of adjustments...my dash also still looks nice...i think the worst thing on the hhr is the thiness of the body panels....the mechanical parts are great...i think the ecotec engines will be 1 of the best ever made.
08-11-2009, 04:06 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-20-2006
Location: Hillsdale, Michigan
Posts: 21,640
to the site!!! I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes this is the longest 1st post along with the most questions ever asked in a single post. Hope you get all the answers you need to make your decision. Question #10 - I don't recall anyone else naming theirs Ben - HHR. 1 question down 
Couple of questions to consider is what engine you want. 2.2 L or 2.4 L. If you want the sport suspension then you will have to opt for the 2LT. My first HHR was a 1LT with the 2.2 engine and it was fine but once the SS came out I had to have it.
08-11-2009, 04:31 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 01-24-2008
Location: USA
Posts: 725
I have the 2LT which included running boards, a sunroof and rear spoiler. Mine was the Special Edition Package which included smoked-chrome wheels, grill, handles, etc. Also in the 2LT is the 2.4 engine which give a bit more umph-hp.
Personally, if you have an interest in adding features later, you'd be better buying the 2LT with everything added on as a package to save money.
There are very few problems with this car. One is blind spots on the front passenger post and couple other rear areas. Second is the continual problem with brake rotors warping. Many have upgraded to better rotors and eliminated that worry.
Finally, if you do some searching on this site you will find every answer to your questions. There's tons of info. here and a nice group of people around to help you out.
Personally, if you have an interest in adding features later, you'd be better buying the 2LT with everything added on as a package to save money.
There are very few problems with this car. One is blind spots on the front passenger post and couple other rear areas. Second is the continual problem with brake rotors warping. Many have upgraded to better rotors and eliminated that worry.
Finally, if you do some searching on this site you will find every answer to your questions. There's tons of info. here and a nice group of people around to help you out.
08-11-2009, 04:33 PM
#7
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 07-26-2009
Location: miami beach
Posts: 68
Thanks,
I'm most likely leaning towards the 2LT anyway because its just easier to have your car come with the options already then to try to back them in - unless we're talking a big discount.
As for engine selection, I have no preference and the extra trim will really decide which letter model I am in and that will determine the engine for me. This is a 'grocery getter'.
I would probably have to test drive a sport suspension equipped model and one without side by side to see which is the best platform for me - unless there is an aftermarket one that has safer/tighter handling with a smoother ride (coilovers? external resevoir shocks? etc.) or just the non sport suspension with sway bars?
Thanks,
Seth
I'm most likely leaning towards the 2LT anyway because its just easier to have your car come with the options already then to try to back them in - unless we're talking a big discount.
As for engine selection, I have no preference and the extra trim will really decide which letter model I am in and that will determine the engine for me. This is a 'grocery getter'.
I would probably have to test drive a sport suspension equipped model and one without side by side to see which is the best platform for me - unless there is an aftermarket one that has safer/tighter handling with a smoother ride (coilovers? external resevoir shocks? etc.) or just the non sport suspension with sway bars?
Thanks,
Seth
08-11-2009, 05:15 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 09-14-2007
Location: SoCAL & Louisville, KY
Posts: 3,365
that post was akin to a dissertation!
Welcome to the site and LOVE the name! Kudos to your wife! 
I have a 2LT, auto, gray leather, loaded and NO problems in 2 years (b-day present 8.31.07). Sunroof broke once, but warranty replaced it, no problems since. No rotor brake issues--what you'll see on here is folks writing about the problems so it seems like we have lots of them. We don't. However, it is good to see what potentially can go wrong so I do read those posts as well just in case.
Plastic, not an issue with scratching or whatever.
Noise, not a problem but I blare the Nano with punk rock and have the sunroof open 95% of the time, so, what car noise?
Sway bar--yes!
And I concur with everyone else, just spend the little extra and get the 2LT as it may cost more in the long run to try and upgrade things.
Welcome!
@ngelita
I have a 2LT, auto, gray leather, loaded and NO problems in 2 years (b-day present 8.31.07). Sunroof broke once, but warranty replaced it, no problems since. No rotor brake issues--what you'll see on here is folks writing about the problems so it seems like we have lots of them. We don't. However, it is good to see what potentially can go wrong so I do read those posts as well just in case.
Plastic, not an issue with scratching or whatever.
Noise, not a problem but I blare the Nano with punk rock and have the sunroof open 95% of the time, so, what car noise?
Sway bar--yes!
And I concur with everyone else, just spend the little extra and get the 2LT as it may cost more in the long run to try and upgrade things.
Welcome!
@ngelita