All aboard the Bandwagon!
03-28-2014, 10:51 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2008
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,457
All aboard the Bandwagon!
Since the ignition recall is national news, I see here and on other GM related sites that there are a whole lot of people piling on, claiming there should be a recall for every little defect, real or imagined.
Not to absolve GM, internal documentation isn't making them look too innocent- at least as far as what the mainstream media is reporting.
However, to claim that a recall should be issued for what are NVH problems, or problems that were issued a service bulletin 6 years ago is a bit excessive.
But here's the bottom line____
These are mass produced vehicles, that are made to a price point. Some 100,000 or so parts that are assembled into what are largely reliable vehicles, regardless of manufacture. If a defect can directly cause serious injury or death, a recall is in order. Something that is inconvenient, or makes the vehicle more difficult to operate (but still capable of being driven safely) can be handled with a service bulletin.
I have owned many 50+ year old cars and trucks, not show queens but daily drivers. Driving such vehicles gives one a certain perspective. Like when the steering box fails and you are stuck in a permanent left turn. As a vehicle operator you need to know what to do when your vehicle fails.
This is where we, as a nation, are failing. In Michigan, driver's training consists of learning what the pictures on the road signs mean, and where to stick the ignition key.
I spent some time in Germany, and around the corner from my apartment was a driver training school. The classes were conducted over a year, and in order to get a license you needed to have a basic understanding of the major systems in a car (one day, I watched through the window as the class was studying a cutaway manual trans. Yes, you need to know how to drive a stick) Students are expected to know how to maintain the vehicle as well as pilot it.
Here, we rely on technology to do our thinking. Well, the human brain is lazy. If it doesn't have to think, it doesn't. So, we have people doing ridiculous things behind the wheel, because the car takes over much of the thinking. (gear shifting, calculating brake pressure, assisting in steering effort) and has been for so long that younger drivers sometimes are bewildered by a manual crank windows.
We demand a lot from our cars and the car makers. And we want it at a reasonable price.
There is an old adage about quality.
"Quality is like buying oats. If you want clean, fresh oats, you pay a certain price. If you want oats that have already been through the horse, that comes cheaper"
/end rant
Not to absolve GM, internal documentation isn't making them look too innocent- at least as far as what the mainstream media is reporting.
However, to claim that a recall should be issued for what are NVH problems, or problems that were issued a service bulletin 6 years ago is a bit excessive.
But here's the bottom line____
These are mass produced vehicles, that are made to a price point. Some 100,000 or so parts that are assembled into what are largely reliable vehicles, regardless of manufacture. If a defect can directly cause serious injury or death, a recall is in order. Something that is inconvenient, or makes the vehicle more difficult to operate (but still capable of being driven safely) can be handled with a service bulletin.
I have owned many 50+ year old cars and trucks, not show queens but daily drivers. Driving such vehicles gives one a certain perspective. Like when the steering box fails and you are stuck in a permanent left turn. As a vehicle operator you need to know what to do when your vehicle fails.
This is where we, as a nation, are failing. In Michigan, driver's training consists of learning what the pictures on the road signs mean, and where to stick the ignition key.
I spent some time in Germany, and around the corner from my apartment was a driver training school. The classes were conducted over a year, and in order to get a license you needed to have a basic understanding of the major systems in a car (one day, I watched through the window as the class was studying a cutaway manual trans. Yes, you need to know how to drive a stick) Students are expected to know how to maintain the vehicle as well as pilot it.
Here, we rely on technology to do our thinking. Well, the human brain is lazy. If it doesn't have to think, it doesn't. So, we have people doing ridiculous things behind the wheel, because the car takes over much of the thinking. (gear shifting, calculating brake pressure, assisting in steering effort) and has been for so long that younger drivers sometimes are bewildered by a manual crank windows.
We demand a lot from our cars and the car makers. And we want it at a reasonable price.
There is an old adage about quality.
"Quality is like buying oats. If you want clean, fresh oats, you pay a certain price. If you want oats that have already been through the horse, that comes cheaper"
/end rant
03-29-2014, 06:16 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-27-2014
Location: Georgia-lina
Posts: 292
My opinion is the whole ignition switch thing is a PR nightmare that was poorly addressed by GM spokespeople and context supercharged by the media.
Any column ignition key cyl that someone has 2 lbs of keys hanging on it, will eventually have issues.
Because so many young drivers were killed by what has been determined an alleged failure of the cars, I totally agree with the action taken at this point. After what was said by GM early on, and in the heels of runaway toyotas, a mass recall is the only publicly accepted course.
Remember the GM TRUCK class action settlement of saddle mounted gas tanks, any registered owner of square body pick ups from the 80s recieved a voucher for guaranteed discounts off a new truck purchase...so here we have thousands of cars at almost paid off age status, going to the dealerships with thier owners most personable car part in hand The Keys.
Any column ignition key cyl that someone has 2 lbs of keys hanging on it, will eventually have issues.
Because so many young drivers were killed by what has been determined an alleged failure of the cars, I totally agree with the action taken at this point. After what was said by GM early on, and in the heels of runaway toyotas, a mass recall is the only publicly accepted course.
Remember the GM TRUCK class action settlement of saddle mounted gas tanks, any registered owner of square body pick ups from the 80s recieved a voucher for guaranteed discounts off a new truck purchase...so here we have thousands of cars at almost paid off age status, going to the dealerships with thier owners most personable car part in hand The Keys.
03-30-2014, 09:42 AM
#4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: 06-21-2008
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,457
Agreed, GM mishandled this one badly.
Where I worry, and I see this almost daily in my job, is that as a country we tend to rely on technology to make us safe, not our own eyes, ears, and brains.
If you create a situation where people are not required to think, eventually they will stop thinking. Relying on technology to make one safe is a false sense of security since technology itself can fail.
In other words, instead of relying on passive systems to protect you in a crash, do not get into a crash in the first place.
And- on the technology side.....
If this doesn't make the strongest case ever for 'keyless' ignition, I can't think of anything that can.
Where I worry, and I see this almost daily in my job, is that as a country we tend to rely on technology to make us safe, not our own eyes, ears, and brains.
If you create a situation where people are not required to think, eventually they will stop thinking. Relying on technology to make one safe is a false sense of security since technology itself can fail.
In other words, instead of relying on passive systems to protect you in a crash, do not get into a crash in the first place.
And- on the technology side.....
If this doesn't make the strongest case ever for 'keyless' ignition, I can't think of anything that can.
03-30-2014, 09:56 AM
#5
Administrator
Join Date: 10-13-2011
Location: Welland,Ont Canada
Posts: 37,625
And I wonder, still I wonder, who'll stop the rain?? this issue of recalls and Santa Cluase is all media mumbo jumbo, I don't think many recal the fire issues of the Ford Pinto or the saddle tank fires of the mid 70's GM pick'em up trucks and there are many of those still being driven today, how about the ignition switch issues of the 67 Chevelle's they could turn off going over a bump or pothole, there was no recall but they still had an issue. maybe the media was to busy then covering other world events, like Vietnam or the middle east crisis.
Same verse just different decade.
Same verse just different decade.
03-30-2014, 02:18 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: 03-27-2014
Location: Georgia-lina
Posts: 292
Agreed, GM mishandled this one badly.
Where I worry, and I see this almost daily in my job, is that as a country we tend to rely on technology to make us safe, not our own eyes, ears, and brains.
If you create a situation where people are not required to think, eventually they will stop thinking. Relying on technology to make one safe is a false sense of security since technology itself can fail.
In other words, instead of relying on passive systems to protect you in a crash, do not get into a crash in the first place.
And- on the technology side.....
If this doesn't make the strongest case ever for 'keyless' ignition, I can't think of anything that can.
Where I worry, and I see this almost daily in my job, is that as a country we tend to rely on technology to make us safe, not our own eyes, ears, and brains.
If you create a situation where people are not required to think, eventually they will stop thinking. Relying on technology to make one safe is a false sense of security since technology itself can fail.
In other words, instead of relying on passive systems to protect you in a crash, do not get into a crash in the first place.
And- on the technology side.....
If this doesn't make the strongest case ever for 'keyless' ignition, I can't think of anything that can.
04-06-2014, 11:26 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: 08-24-2012
Location: State of Confusion, U.S.A.
Posts: 177
Mmm ... being as old as a classic chevy. i've had some automotive issues, such as broken timing chain & a belt, had a fan blade come off (old belt driven water pump/fan) at high speed. Tore the hell out of everything in the engine bay. Electrical, steering pump hoses, coolant hoses and a brake line. definitely a lose of power situation ... but, Still here ... growing up on Grand Theft Auto not exactly the best thing I guess