Snoopy

Interesting article. Read it......I'm open for comments.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070909/aqsu004.html?.v=4

Vivid

Shows how much I've been paying attention lately, as I didn't even realize that they were putting the change into effect. If they can make it work, then hey - more power to them I suppose.

JoeR

OK, Snoopy, I'll bite....

First, the open wheel cars have been using methanol for many years now. Last year they used a 90% methanol/10% ethanol mix. There's really not a big difference in HP potential between methanol and ethanol when the engines are built and tuned for them.

Methanol and ethanol are fairly close in both BTU potential, stoic AFR and power potential. For any engine to have more power potential than gasoline, they have to be built for that (read: higher compression) and tuned for it. The primary reason the "Indy" cars went with methanol was due to a catastrophic fire at an Indy 500 many years ago and the change was decided for safety reasons.

My opinion is that this is more of a PR and money thing than any real change. The US open wheel series was split many years ago for "political" reasons and has suffered since in attendance and viewing. This is a deal with the ethanol industry to promote a friendly "green" image that benefits both. The ethanol industry is trying to gain usage based upon use of renewable resources (i.e. ethanol from corn) vs. buying foreign oil. That industry will benefit, as will the farmers who grow corn. We have two proposals in SE VA for large ethanol production facilities right now.

The down side? If this trend continues, yes, we will use less foreign oil, but our family picnics will have fresh corn on the cob a gourmet luxury! Also, corn for livestock feed will be higher in cost with meats more expensive.

Gets confusing, doesn't it?

Snoopy

Thanks Joe....

You posted my thoughts exactly......oh, and corn for animal and human feed is already reflecting in the cost of those products dependent on it. Even read an article about the Mexican people are establishing protests because of the cost of corn, which is an important staple in their diet.

betterof2evils4

Depends on how far along the chain of cause-and-effect you go..

This solution to fuel is sort of like some new medicines... The side-affect is almost as bad, if not worse than the ailment..

Black Rose

Wasn't the original intent that corn or other renewable resource to be used for ethanol production would be grown specifically for ethanol production so as to not affect the prices of corn for feed and human consumption? It would also give "farmers" the ability to plant "crops" that they could actually make some money from. At least that's what they yapping about up here.

Kinda makes me glad my doctor doesn't want me eating corn anymore.

JoeR

But look at it from the perspective of the farmers. They will grow whatever crop, be it corn, soybeans, etc. to maximize their own profit. For corn, which market do they want to produce for? Before, it was typically a choice of animal feed or human "feed". Now that we've got ethanol in the mix, it will be whatever reaps the best returns for them. Sort of complicates the market, but higher demand for ethanol will likely benefit the farmers, at least in the short term, but will also have the effect of raising costs for both animal feed and human consumption.

Another factor.... The alcohol fuels as our engine's are built today will result in LOWER mileage for the consumer at no cost savings, which is a challenge to the ethanol industry right now.

For example, my previous (to the HHR) second car and family hauler was a Dodge Caravan with a Flex-Fuel (E85) engine. E85 is not marketed anywhere near where I live and I never saw any in the years that I owned it. If I did, I would have passed on it.

Now, in large population areas, the EPA wants to get rid of MTBE in gasoline. So in the larger cities on the east coast all the gas is E10 (90% gas/10% ethanol). That results in costs that are about the same and about a 2-3% loss in power and economy. Where's the benefit to the consumer?

JoeR

Yep, Snoopy, now the cost of tacos will skyrocket!! Taco Bell profits will fall. Where's the sense in all this??

SandyBeach

The Air Force has been buying fuel with ethanol for several years now. I always saw a reduction of 2-3 miles per gallon and the cost was about the same.

Yes, it's great to find other fuel sources, but, I'm getting real tired of paying $4 a gallon for milk. Many farms are now owned by corporations who only care about profits. If they make more money selling the products to overseas markets, us in the US just might do without!

LittleChickenRacingTeam

Corn & soyabean ethanol are soooooo passe.

Jatropha biodiesel is where it's at.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...ney_topstories