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GM bail out

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Old 11-19-2008, 05:51 AM
  #11  
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The only difference in labor rates is the American companies are paying pension benifits that the japs don't have as they don't have any companies that have been here long enough. Toyota has one in Ky. that is getting there and they are doing their best to make life unbearable for older employees in order to fire them or get them to quit so they don't have to pay a full pension. At least GM steps up to the plate and does what is right the same as any other company should. If GM goes out where do you think you will find replacement parts for your HHR or are you just troiling here to cause trouble? If they file there won't be a GM and every GM built car will be worth 0 and the next car you buy will cost a whole lot more than what you are paying now do to the supply and demand. It will take at many many years to replace the 10 million cars that GM sells alone but most likely there will not be that demand cause this country will be in a depression by the middle of next year and then we will see how your talk the talk. I don't know what you do for a living but I can't think of ANY job where this won't cost you a lot of money somehow. Enlighten me.
================
If Big 3 management is so stupid that they never bothered to ask themselves what would happen if fuel prices rose again, then they need to be sacked. It could appear that they basically gave up on compact cars because they couldn't compete while saddled with the excessive UAW labor rates.

So if the US auto industry really is critical to the US economy (which I think it is), then give them the loan to pull through *IF AND ONLY IF* they can substantially change what they are doing. That involves an executive management team that doesn't place their business in such a risky position that a single foreseeable market change will bankrupt them. But just paying them $25B of our tax dollars so they can continue paying triple labor rates to making more low-quality gas guzzlers doesn't make any sense to me.[/quote]
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:20 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by dpoll995
there is federal laws that protect workers rights now. free trade+ hard work= wealth...
Funny... Free trade(?) + hard work = floundering poor house!
Free Trade is part of the overall cause of the trade deficits!

Restructure Free Trade. Period!
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Old 11-19-2008, 06:28 AM
  #13  
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:44 AM
  #14  
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This "bailout" is not free money to the Big 3 . . . it is a defined term low intrest loan, similar to the aide that Chrysler got way back when.

It is too easy to niavely screem "Go Backrupt!" . . . But that would be the worse thing EVER for any of the Big 3 to do . . . IF any one of them did it, do you realise that then WE would be 100% responcible to cover the pensions etc.? Costing us MORE than the bailout . . .

What about the catastrophic domino affect on EVERY avene of the auto industry . . . Not jut the Big 3, but ALL car makers . . . Do you really believe that each car manufacturer doesn't share parts suppliers? . . .

This Government Loan MUST occur, or we will be so deeply screwed . . .

Think deeply before you become a uneducated keyboard warrior.
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:59 AM
  #15  
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Bankruptcy or not really doesn't answer the systemic problem in the long haul either way. If you look at the overall performance of the free trade philosophy and implementation, encouraging foreign companies to build in North America by susidizing loans, free land in some cases, tax breaks and credits, allowing a different set of rules to apply for that segment of the manufacturing base, of course there is a marked disadvantage for the big 3. CNN reported recently that the big 3 have $1350 in every car for labor and related "baggage", while the others have $235. Thinking about not only the UAW additional overhead, the additional operating costs that are present as well contribute to the inability to match $ for $ in offerings. The asian cars specifically are generally able to "load up" more basic features in their products because it costs less. The profits leave the continent. This open arms welcome has and will continue to cost many more jobs down the road until some one, some where, realises that the shrinking manufacturing base in all industries is the root cause of the melt down. Today it is the auto industry. Tomorrow it will be some one else. Look at all of the companies that outsource to India, China etc. because of lower overheads overseas. Sooner or later I hope people will realize it is better to have a job than not, and lower their expectations accordingly. Creating jobs that feed the economy and tax base is the only way to come back. That means reclaiming the manufacturing sector that has for too long been ignored and allowed to slip offshore. At least that's the way I see it. Economists are also predicting that it will be China and India that lead the world out of the world recession/depression. That alone should be a real gut check to ALL north americans about the pecking order of what the future will look like - and who controls it.

Last edited by Inspector; 11-19-2008 at 09:03 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 11-19-2008, 09:43 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by bigdog9586
They sell 11+ million vehicles a year more than anyone else
============
And yet they can't make a profit?

So explain exactly how this is MY problem??????

The only commie here seems to be you. Take from those that have and give to those that do nothing.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:02 AM
  #17  
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Rick Wagoner and Key Points to the Senate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

United States Senate
Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee

Rick Wagoner
General Motors Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Washington, D.C.


• Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

• I’m Rick Wagoner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Motors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the future of America’s domestic auto industry.

• I’d like to acknowledge for the Committee the constituents that I represent:

• General Motors directly employs approximately 96,000 people in the United States.

• We have 6,500 dealers across the country, who employ another 340,000.

• Last year, we purchased more than $30 billion of goods and services from more than 2,000 suppliers in 46 states.

• Our pension program covers nearly 475,000 retirees and spouses, and our health benefits extend to about one million Americans.

• We have about one million registered stockholders.

• And 70 million of our vehicles are registered to U.S. citizens… 22 million of them purchased in the last 5 years.

* * * * * * *

• As recent news coverage has made abundantly clear, many people have a picture of GM that has not kept pace with our progress.

• In fact, GM has made tremendous progress transforming our business in recent years.

• Since 2005, we’ve reduced our annual structural costs in North America by 23 percent, or $9 billion… and expect to reduce them by about 35 percent, or $14-$15 billion, by 2011.

• Between 2003 and 2010, we'll reduce our U.S. hourly labor costs from $18 billion to $6 billion.

• We negotiated a landmark labor agreement with the UAW last year that will enable us to virtually erase our competitive gap.

• And we’ve addressed pension and retiree health care costs in the U.S., on which we spent $103 billion over the last 15 years.

• As a result of these and other actions, we are now matching – or beating – foreign automakers in terms of productivity, quality, and fuel economy. By 2010, we’ll match them on labor costs, as well.


• On the product side, we’re building vehicles that consumers want to buy… like Cadillac CTS, Motor Trend magazine’s 2008 Car of the Year… and Chevy Malibu, the 2008 North American Car of the Year.

• We’ve also made huge progress developing advanced propulsion technologies.

• In 2009, GM will offer 20 models in the U.S. that get at least 30 miles per gallon highway – twice our nearest competitor – and nine hybrids.

• We have more than three million flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S.

• We’ve established the world’s largest hydrogen fuel-cell test fleet here in the U.S.

• And we’re running all-out to get the Chevy Volt extended range electric vehicle to market as soon as possible.

* * * * * * *

• In short, we’ve moved aggressively in recent years to address competitive shortcomings and position GM for long-term success… and we were well on the road to turning our North American business around.

• Last October, following the negotiation of a new labor agreement with the UAW, our stock price climbed to almost $43 per-share… based on analysts’ views that we had finally overcome the cost-competitiveness gap with foreign automakers.

• Since then, our industry has been hit hard by the global financial markets crisis… and the recent plunge in vehicle sales threatens not only GM’s ongoing turnaround, but our very survival.

• In response, we have moved quickly to keep our company on track. Since June, we’ve taken steps to:

• reduce our North American manufacturing capacity;

• further shift production to cars and crossovers;

• sell off parts of the company;

• suspend dividend payments;

• reduce headcount;

• eliminate raises, discretionary bonuses, and 401(k) matches for salaried employees;

• and eliminate health-care coverage for U.S. salaried retirees after age 65.

• These and other actions are designed to improve GM’s liquidity by $20 billion by the end of 2009. They affect every employee, retiree, dealer, supplier, and investor in our company.

* * * * * * *

• Mr. Chairman, I do not agree with those who say we are not doing enough to position GM for success.

• What exposes us to failure now is not our product lineup, or our business plan, or our employees' ability to work hard, or our long-term strategy.

• What exposes us to failure now is the global financial crisis, which has severely restricted credit availability, and reduced industry sales to the lowest per-capita level since World War II.

• Our industry, which represents America’s real economy, needs a bridge to span the financial chasm that has opened before us.

• We’ll use this bridge to pay for essential operations… new vehicles and powertrains… parts from our suppliers… wages and benefits for our workers and retirees… and taxes for state and local governments that help deliver essential services to million of Americans.

• In the process, we’ll continue to reinvent the automobile, and improve the nation’s energy security, through development of advanced technologies like those in the Chevy Volt.

* * * * * * *

• And what would it mean if the domestic industry were allowed to fail?

• The societal costs would be catastrophic: three million jobs lost within the first year, U.S. personal income reduced by $150 billion, and a government tax loss of more than $156 billion over three years… not to mention the broader blow to consumer and business confidence.

• Such a level of economic devastation would far exceed the government support that our industry needs to weather the current crisis.

• That’s why this is about much more than just Detroit… it’s about saving the U.S. economy from a catastrophic collapse.

• In short, helping the auto industry bridge the current financial crisis will not only prevent massive economic dislocation now… it will also produce enormous benefits for our country later.

• We want to continue the vital role we’ve played for America for the past 100 years… but we can’t do it alone.

• You can help us through this crisis. In return, we will repay the taxpayer’s faith and support many times over, for many years to come.

• Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you think GM hasn't been making changes? . . . .

And exactly HOW does a Governmental LOAN affect you? It doesn't, but any one of the Big 3 filing bankruptcy wiill affect you for a VERY long time . . .
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:10 AM
  #18  
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With all due respect to BigDog, continuing to use terms such as "commie" and "japs" don't exactly support your arguments for supporting GM, and they also convey a sense of 60's-type thinking, IMO. However, being in Lansing, he is seeing firsthand the effects of the decline of the Big 3.

In my opinion, if we give the Big 3 the $25B, we're going to see the same thing happen as we did with the airline industry after 9/11 - we gave them financial assistance (read: bailout), and now they're operating as crappy as they did previous to the event which led to their industry's decline.
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:19 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Xsta Z 28
Rick Wagoner and Key Points to the Senate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

United States Senate
Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee

Rick Wagoner
General Motors Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Washington, D.C.


• Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman.

• I’m Rick Wagoner, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Motors. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the future of America’s domestic auto industry.

• I’d like to acknowledge for the Committee the constituents that I represent:

• General Motors directly employs approximately 96,000 people in the United States.

• We have 6,500 dealers across the country, who employ another 340,000.

• Last year, we purchased more than $30 billion of goods and services from more than 2,000 suppliers in 46 states.

• Our pension program covers nearly 475,000 retirees and spouses, and our health benefits extend to about one million Americans.

• We have about one million registered stockholders.

• And 70 million of our vehicles are registered to U.S. citizens… 22 million of them purchased in the last 5 years.

* * * * * * *

• As recent news coverage has made abundantly clear, many people have a picture of GM that has not kept pace with our progress.

• In fact, GM has made tremendous progress transforming our business in recent years.

• Since 2005, we’ve reduced our annual structural costs in North America by 23 percent, or $9 billion… and expect to reduce them by about 35 percent, or $14-$15 billion, by 2011.

• Between 2003 and 2010, we'll reduce our U.S. hourly labor costs from $18 billion to $6 billion.

• We negotiated a landmark labor agreement with the UAW last year that will enable us to virtually erase our competitive gap.

• And we’ve addressed pension and retiree health care costs in the U.S., on which we spent $103 billion over the last 15 years.

• As a result of these and other actions, we are now matching – or beating – foreign automakers in terms of productivity, quality, and fuel economy. By 2010, we’ll match them on labor costs, as well.


• On the product side, we’re building vehicles that consumers want to buy… like Cadillac CTS, Motor Trend magazine’s 2008 Car of the Year… and Chevy Malibu, the 2008 North American Car of the Year.

• We’ve also made huge progress developing advanced propulsion technologies.

• In 2009, GM will offer 20 models in the U.S. that get at least 30 miles per gallon highway – twice our nearest competitor – and nine hybrids.

• We have more than three million flex-fuel vehicles on the road in the U.S.

• We’ve established the world’s largest hydrogen fuel-cell test fleet here in the U.S.

• And we’re running all-out to get the Chevy Volt extended range electric vehicle to market as soon as possible.

* * * * * * *

• In short, we’ve moved aggressively in recent years to address competitive shortcomings and position GM for long-term success… and we were well on the road to turning our North American business around.

• Last October, following the negotiation of a new labor agreement with the UAW, our stock price climbed to almost $43 per-share… based on analysts’ views that we had finally overcome the cost-competitiveness gap with foreign automakers.

• Since then, our industry has been hit hard by the global financial markets crisis… and the recent plunge in vehicle sales threatens not only GM’s ongoing turnaround, but our very survival.

• In response, we have moved quickly to keep our company on track. Since June, we’ve taken steps to:

• reduce our North American manufacturing capacity;

• further shift production to cars and crossovers;

• sell off parts of the company;

• suspend dividend payments;

• reduce headcount;

• eliminate raises, discretionary bonuses, and 401(k) matches for salaried employees;

• and eliminate health-care coverage for U.S. salaried retirees after age 65.

• These and other actions are designed to improve GM’s liquidity by $20 billion by the end of 2009. They affect every employee, retiree, dealer, supplier, and investor in our company.

* * * * * * *

• Mr. Chairman, I do not agree with those who say we are not doing enough to position GM for success.

• What exposes us to failure now is not our product lineup, or our business plan, or our employees' ability to work hard, or our long-term strategy.

• What exposes us to failure now is the global financial crisis, which has severely restricted credit availability, and reduced industry sales to the lowest per-capita level since World War II.

• Our industry, which represents America’s real economy, needs a bridge to span the financial chasm that has opened before us.

• We’ll use this bridge to pay for essential operations… new vehicles and powertrains… parts from our suppliers… wages and benefits for our workers and retirees… and taxes for state and local governments that help deliver essential services to million of Americans.

• In the process, we’ll continue to reinvent the automobile, and improve the nation’s energy security, through development of advanced technologies like those in the Chevy Volt.

* * * * * * *

• And what would it mean if the domestic industry were allowed to fail?

• The societal costs would be catastrophic: three million jobs lost within the first year, U.S. personal income reduced by $150 billion, and a government tax loss of more than $156 billion over three years… not to mention the broader blow to consumer and business confidence.

• Such a level of economic devastation would far exceed the government support that our industry needs to weather the current crisis.

• That’s why this is about much more than just Detroit… it’s about saving the U.S. economy from a catastrophic collapse.

• In short, helping the auto industry bridge the current financial crisis will not only prevent massive economic dislocation now… it will also produce enormous benefits for our country later.

• We want to continue the vital role we’ve played for America for the past 100 years… but we can’t do it alone.

• You can help us through this crisis. In return, we will repay the taxpayer’s faith and support many times over, for many years to come.

• Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you think GM hasn't been making changes? . . . .

And exactly HOW does a Governmental LOAN affect you? It doesn't, but any one of the Big 3 filing bankruptcy wiill affect you for a VERY long time . . .

Thank you! Nothing like the informed facts getting in the way.
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Old 11-19-2008, 11:00 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Xsta Z 28
And exactly HOW does a Governmental LOAN affect you? It doesn't, but any one of the Big 3 filing bankruptcy wiill affect you for a VERY long time . . .
Where do you think the government loan comes from? From the taxes each and everyone of the the people that actually work in this country pay. Throwing more of MY money down a black hole does NOTHING to fix the problem.

Time for GM to take their medicine like everyone else in this country. The well is dry!
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