Goose

Been there done that more times than I can remember. What you just described here happens everyday in the military...just change the words to "if used properly" in some cases

No strike ever gonna happen with these men and women Thank God


Goose

oldschoolfreak

i just have a couple of things to say about this
1 i work 12-14 hr days around machinery that can kill if not used properly for under 20.00 bucks an hour. so when i hear them cry its no wonder gm is heading soouth!
2 i know of a Sr. engineer in mich for gm`s testing and design department from a corvette forum and this guy didnt know how to determine the diameter of a wheel? i swear to god!! So idiots like this should get tons more cash because there in a union?? whatever!!
3 hell dump the union and give people that wanna work a chance id take 25 bucks an hour to stand and push a button for 12 hrs a day!!!

Alzonie

The UAW helped, in large part, to bring on the demise of the International Harvester Co. back in the early '80s with their greedy tactics. First their Construction Equipment Division went belly up, then the Farm Equipment Division was bought out by Case (Along with the IH Logo)! This caused their remaining Truck Division name to be changed to "Navistar"! If the UAW doesn't bend a little and tread lightly, there's no telling what damage they might do to the U.S. Auto Industry, and ultimately to themselves!

Snoopy

Stovebolt....

Several years ago, when the need to compute outside labor was necessary, the figure of $68/hr was used(by GM). This included....hourly wage (not including o/t), health care, dental, optical, basic life insurance, some paid holidays. It omitted many of the holidays GM recognized and vacation time. With the escalating cost of health care your number is probably pretty close.

But you dollars for the retirement plan (if it is just that) is probably high. The AVERAGE 30 year seniority UNION retiree gets something like $2800/mo. But if he is close to SS age, that could possible raise the TOTAL retirement to near $5000/mo. The retiree might also get some stipend from the union.

Health care for the union worker is a separate issue. As I understand it, their coverage is much better than the salaried GM worker (I'm one). And costs GM something like 30% MORE for the individual union worker than it does for the salaried worker. It may be similar to the salaried program, so the "coverage" money is NOT paid to premiums....GM is self insured. They do pay several different companies to administer the program.

Oh, and the union leadership did provide some health coverage relief, a few years back. On an individual basis it is minor. But collectively GM recognized several billion dollars. So the union health care program is not totally free.

Just thought you would like to know.

rcsart

Growing up in a union environment and being pro union I'm a little surprised at the UAW's; walk out on the issue at hand. As others have mentioned job security is out the door for most of us, I can understand being displeased over the fact but I don't see how the USA will ever turn this around. The issues mentioned that we don't need the UAW I don't agree, if the union were pulled out all together things would quickly revert back to conditions where the workers are unprotected altogether IMHO. I do believe they need to be realistic in their demands and look at pay cuts across the board to make the US auto makers strong and assure some job security. GM is no saint either, along with the other US auto makers; they too have gotten fat off of us for years. If you think your brothers and sisters deserve less then middle class livings when the executives are making several 100 thousand dollar salaries per year doing a lot less then pushing buttons, then you need a reality check. I think they should look at the real issues both sides face; we need to build cars at a profit and be competitive with the competition. We need to keep all our factories based in the USA; we need to supply health insurance for the workers and their families, and pay the workers a fair salary, and stop over paying top brass BS salaries. Spend the union money to force our government officials to work for us to give us brakes on insurance cost, and tax cuts to any industries that keep their operations in the USA and take the tax cuts away if they take their business over seas or outside the USA or Canada. Then maybe we can start working toward making the USA strong and helping us help ourselves.

Snoopy

It's ok. I agree with SOME of it.

One question regarding your statement on pay for the CEO's. But first, Most make far more than the 100 thousand dollar salaries that you indicated.....more like in the millions and up if you count stock options. But many companies tie the upper management salaries to performance, now. They still might make a million or so, but the 10's of millions are gone (at least in GM's case).


Now, my question.....you have any idea what the UAW or Teamster or AFL leadership makes??? How about ANY of the Powerful unions in this country??

And, I ALMOST hesitate to mention this...but I will, don't forget what is paid under the table to the union.

jeffs396

From my point of view, I see most of this as corporate greed. I'm an aircraft mechanic & I have worked for Delta (non-union), Currently laid-off from Usairways (union). I've got 17 years with the latter, & after 9-11, the airlines saw it as an opportunity to clean house! After we took our first pay/benefits cut in 2002, upper management got bonuses/raises for forcing the consessions down our throat. I understand when hard times are upon us, we must give up some things, but all employees should, not just the labor. The unions are always first to be blamed for a company's financial woes. I'm not saying the unions are without fault, far from it, but they have lost their way over the years & have turned it into big business & forgot what the original intention was. Most people say if the US automakers want to compete, build a better product. I think they have, for the most part. Just my two cents!!!
jeffs396

hhrcrafty

1. So you working in an open shop is somehow the fault of someone who chooses to be in a union?

2. There aren't ANY "Senior Engineers" working for GM's "testing and design" department that are in the UAW. Engineers are salaried employees.

3. Like I said, there aren't too many people in plants pushing buttons for 12 hours a day. In fact, you'd probably be hard pressed to find any people pushing buttons besides the guys who program the robots.

My great-grandfather was part of one of the first sit-down strikes in Flint. My grandfather was a unioned carpenter and autoworker in Michigan. My father was a UAW worker for 20 years before he became a salaried employee for the last half of his career with GM. I've grown up and lived with these people my whole life and I've found that people who criticize the UAW usually have no clue what they're even talking about.

The UAW is going to have to learn to be competitive, not compliant, if it wants to continue to exist in the future. That will be the biggest challenge they face in the years ahead.

quest51210

my father used to pick cotton and fruit for this country and was a member of the United Farm Workers. if you want to talk about getting screwed you are preaching to the choir. he was happy to get $1/hr in the 60's for 14-16 hour days with absolutely no benefits. he got smart and started his own business...with a 3rd grade education and a dream he grossed $250K his first year in 1971

my cousin was an engineer at GM and now an engineer at Toyota. he still has brand loyalty with GM and he is the reason i have my HHR, but the line workers made more than he did and it is wrong that ppl dedicate their lives to getting an education to get slapped in the face by union employees.

rcsart

Snoopy, I should have included the Union executives too I don't feel anyone needs to make these salaries Including Dell and Gates of whom I've worked for. Since you mentioned what unions get paid under the table, how much do auto makers executives get slipped under the table? All those good ole boy deals you and I will surely get a piece of on our holiday bonuses, lol the point is both sides need to be fair and we the public need to do our part in buying american made autos and get what we pay for.