Remford

I've got an interesting little situation regarding my trade-in with the dealership where I purchased my HHR and would appreciate any constructive suggestions or input.

I traded my car when purchasing the HHR which, for business and tax reasons, is titled in my wife's name. Everything was good to go at deal time, and the dealership had inspected the used car, the title, and the details were supposed to have been settled when the 11th hour alarm went off.

The Sales Manager told me that the state law governing trades required that the NEW vehicle purchaser's name must be an owner of the traded vehicle, they would NOT be able to apply the trade toward the vehicle purchase price. They would still proceed with the trade, but we could not benefit from the sales tax reduction for the trade value. It amounted to a few hundred dollars, and although combined with the trade valuation it made the proposition of trading the car at ALL questionable without the tax benefit, we had made all of our planning and decisions around disposing of the old vehicle and just not having to deal with it, so we just begrudgingly went ahead, understanding that the dealer didn't stand to profit from the last-minute curve ball, but their inattention to detail effectively still came at OUR expense.

I had purchased the old vehicle new in 1999 while in another state and still married to my first wife. The title (from that state) reads "OR", and because I always continued to maintain a plausible address in that state and there were several other benefits to having it regestered there, I simply continued to maintain the original registration through today. Shortly after the purchase, my ex-wife litterally flew the coop. And while the details are neither nefarious nor relevant, we both subsequently accepted job transfers to different states and simply hadn't been in contact for several years, and we just moved on with our own lives that didn't include each other. I paid the balance of the car payments and received the title from the bank when it was paid in full.

Fast forward a year or so, and I find myself moving yet again and engaged to be married to my present wife. While doing some due diligence during the move process, I discovered that THIS state required BOTH parties' signature on a vehicle title, even IF it read "OR". (i.e. they do not recognize "OR" titles here). Knowing I'd EVENTUALLY re-register the vehicle here or sell/trade it, I arranged to meet my ex-wife for the express purpose of her signing the title so I could freely dispose of the vehicle as I wished (we were now divorced for some 5 years at this point) and that brings us current on all of the relevant details.

My first question of the dealership was to ask why I couldn't simply sign the title as well, endorsing it to my present wife, and she could then claim the sales tax reduction. I think their response was based more on not wanting to deal with it than any statutory limitations, but they refused. After a second or two of grumbling and a dirtly look, we said, "Fine.' and just went ahead with the two separate transactions of the dealership buying the old vehicle outright and us buying the HHR without a trade-in. I signed the old vehicle title, they cut me a check, and we were done. So I thought.

Today, I get an "out of the blue" phone call from the dealership telling me there is a "problem" with the title and they need me to sign it again in a different place before the auction would accept my car from them. When I told them to FedEx me the title so I could sign and return it to them, he hemmed and hawed and said, "Let me see if that's ok, or if we need your ex-wife's signature too." Well, let me tell you, that's just not likely to happen, and that's when I clarified to the salesperson the difference between "WE may have a problem" and "THEY may have a problem."

Now, there's no animosity between my ex and I whatsoever, but to be honest, I don't even know where she lives, or even if she's happily remarried with a husband who'd be just about as happy as ME leaving a message on their answering machine as MY wife would if my ex-wife were to suddenly appear in OUR lives, given they've never met and no matter how limited the circumstances might be. And while I certainly stand nothing to gain from the dealership's circumstances, at what point have I done all that's reasonably required of me? I mean, hell. I'm just a damn consumer. They DO this for a living. We read the title and signed it where it said we should and, as far as I'm concerned, that car was "off the books" of my life, so to speak.

I've absolutely NO qualms whatsoever about schlepping back up there and signing it for them or doing a FedEx back-and-forth. Why wouldn't I? (Even WITH the cost of gas nowadays). But I'm certainly not about to go hunting down my ex-wife at this point, nor do I feel particularly obligated to "undo the deal" at this point, though it would be no problem whatsoever to hand back the cash they paid me for it, much to the same degree, and in the same manner as they'd laugh me out of their office if I went back to THEM a week later and decided our business couldn't afford the car or wasn't large enough to meet our hauling needs. I mean, if THEY want to track her down and get her to countersign AGAIN, isn't it THEIR responsibility?

Before anyone responds, I'd like to reiterate that I have NO interest in the dealership having any hassles whatsoever, and there was absolutely NOTHING that wasn't fully disclosed to them. In fact, there wasn't even anything to not disclose to them, period.

So, with Sunday as an "off day" for the dealer, I thought I'd use that opportunity to ask the question publicy and solicit input before I decide what my final stance with the dealership will be should they claim I'm obligated to do more than I'm willing, which is what I've stated above.

Thanks again, in advance, for the input.

Remmie

terry44030

I'm SOOOOOO glad I didn't have any EX-issues to deal with. Personally, I'd take them back their check, tell them I want my old car back, and give them the keys to the HHR. They'll probably figure out a way to straighten things out without unwinding the deal. If not, I'd advertise the old car for sale (selling outright will almost always get you more money), and buy an HHR from a different dealer.

My situation was.....the deal was done, I drove the HHR for a week, and went back to have the mudflaps installed, they tried to get me to re-sign new paperwork, with a different bank and $20 higher payments. First, I told them they were crazy as hell if they thought I was gonna do that. Then, I DEMANDED that they bring my old car back to me IMMEDIATELY, and I was gonna get the hell outta there, they could drive their HHR right up the dealership owner's ass. After about 45 minutes, they discovered a way to do the deal with me re-signing new paperwork with the new bank at the same payment.

Remford

Thanks for sharing, Terry. I can't believe they tried to pull that bait-n-switch after the fact. Did they ever fess-up as to what happened? Did they over-promise from the first lender and do the deal without due diligence, or were the just looking to ream you by moving your loan somewhere that gave them a better spiff? Either way, I'm glad you leveraged them having to take the car back and eat some of the drive-off depreciation to get them to do the right thing.

Because there were, in the end, two separate transactions involved, I'm not sure if I can do the same thing, other than signing the title again and leaving it to them to make the choice of resolving the rest of the title on their own or undoing BOTH deals. Hell, who knows? Maybe they even dry-iced the door dings out of it and it's nicer than when I left it? :) To be honest, given my druthers and GM's dodgy performance numbers of late, I'd just as soon have a crack at ordering an '08 anyway. :)

Seriously though, I just want the damn thing to "go away". There's NO bad blood between my ex and I, it's just that we've been WELL out of each others' lives for many years, and given that I've never had to involve her in my life since (or be involved with hers), I'm just not keen to open that up again under any circumstances I can imagine. Even for the extra grand or two I might be able to gain from selling the old car outright just doesn't appeal compared to the hassle of having to list it, be available for showings, and deal with people coming to my home. Blech. :)

Anyway, I genuinely DO appreciate your insight and advice. I suppose it all depends on what the dealer asks of me. And though I certainly don't have any interest in their lives being any harder than they have to be, I don't feel particularly compelled to complicate mine some 3 or 4 weeks down the road for the sake of them not having to complicate theirs.

Thanks again, and I'd look forward to any further suggestions or advice that may be available. I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome.

Best,

Remmie

GDZHHR

As I read what you've shared, I'm surprised that the dealer was willing to take the car at all. At least by using their reasoning for not allowing it for a trade-in.

While it may not have been exactly legal, okay it WASN'T, but...in a similar situation several years ago, I just told them "Sure, I'll get her to sign it and be back in a little bit." I then drove down the road, had a little lunch, and signed her name myself. Problem solved!

Like I said, not legal or ethical, but it solved the problem quickly. I'm also NOT recommending that anyone do what I did.

rcsart

How does a dealership who deals with trade ins everyday, looks at titles knowing where they need to be signed screw up so bad? You would think on their paper work it would have a place to mark there is a trade in. Not all this extra crap as to the name on the car being traded, nor it affecting the paper work for the title on the new car. If they were able to take the car at all and then apply that cash to your loan, usually cash down on a loan looks better then a trade anyway. So where does the tax break issue come in on all of this, do you get a tax break because you traded a car in? I've never been offered any tax breaks for trading a car in on a new car. So maybe this has to do with state taxes we don't have here in Texas. Either way good luck, I would say let them fed x it to you, sign it send it back and let them take care of the rest. They bought the car they screwed up let them figure it out; they wouldn't be doing you favors if the shoe was on the other foot. Although if your planning on using them to do the service on your new HHR you might what to try and deal with them in a very friendly manner.

terry44030

LOL< actually, GDZHHR handled the situation the best way, IMHO.

hhrcrafty

*Bluntness Warning*

Okay, from a legal perspective, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that the title for your old vehicle is in order. If you are transferring ownership of a car that was titled in one state as an OR title to a state that doesn't recognize an OR title, you must have two signatures. In addition, it would have saved you a lot of trouble if you'd just re-titled the vehicle in the new state to begin with.

In addition, the failure of you and your ex-wife to properly endorse the title from another state is not the fault of the dealership! They don't do business in that other state and they must follow the laws of the state in which they do business. If you want to end the transaction, I'm sure the dealership would gladly give your wholesale car back to you and take the HHR back with a reasonable allowance for mileage and wear.

Also, you're lucky that the dealer was willing to apply the trade to the new vehicle at all. Your situation with your wife being the title and note holder for your vehicle is essentially a "straw purchase" and is actually very illegal in some states and frowned upon by most banks.

Before the reporting ensues, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating my perspective from a legal point of view. Good luck with the transaction and I sincerely hope you can keep the car.

solman98

When I got divorced some 10 years ago. Both vehicles were paid for and in both names. I got my title and told her to sign it. I did the same for hers. I went to the DMV and got a new title in my name only. I did it the next day. I wanted no ties.

I will not have my title or any joint accounts, ever again.

I would have done the same.

Another reason to NOT finance with the dealership.

hhrcrafty

They probably "shopped" the loan and couldn't get you financed for the amount you thought you were signing for. A classic example is that you sign a piece of paper that allows you to take the car but you're allowing them to shop the note. When you threatened to just give back the car, they probably ate some money to get the payments back down. Good job!

In most states, any time you trade a car in, you're eligible for a sales tax rebate off your new car purchased in the same transaction based on the tax value of the old car. Texas' sales tax laws may be different, but if you get your old car appraised at Carmax they'll print the rebate amount right on the appraisal offer.

rcsart

Is that like a personal property tax? If so then we do not pay this in Texas, thanks for addressing my question Crafty.