405HP_Z06

What data do you have to prove this? UOA's?

mistermike

UOA's don't tell you much about filtering efficiency. You could have a very high level of contamination of various metals, but if the particle size is small enough, it would reflect poorly on the innocent filter. There also no way to establish a control with this type of test. UOA's tell you about the oil, not the filter. You pretty much have to rely on independant labs that are properly set up to measure single and multiple pass efficiency and particle size thresholds. The data I recall on the Purolators was published 3 or 4 years ago and also included a wide range of "normal" and "boutique" filters and stated the actual manufacturers (Wix, Champion, etc.) behind the brand names. Sorry I didn't save the link.

My real objection is the outfits that charge double and triple the market rate for a decent filter for that is frequently no better than a $3.99 unit just to get that "brand prestige" effect. "Gee, I use Mobil 1 oil, so shouldn't their filter be the best match?????" PT Barnum was right.

My feelings are similar on $40 wiper blades.

mistermike

People can argue about this or that aftermarket "prestige" filter, but you'll never go wrong with the OEM filter. If I can't get my favorite Purolators, I'll toss in a Delco without guilt. I've just seen too many failures and leaks on Frams in recent years. In the 60's, they were as good as anything out there, but not these days.

Snoopy

Interesting logic, mistermike.....

and I do believe you are correct. I still say, "There is no intelligent absolute REAL LIFE proof that $8.00/qt oil is better than $4.50/qt oil in providing extended engine life (isn't that what this is about)". As long as the product MEETS or EXCEEDS the manufacturers requirements. The 2 statement also apply to oil filters.

And before all the he said, she said, I did, they did start......I want real long term engine testing similar to what each and every auto manufacturer does when they establish the requirements.

mistermike

Interesting article, recently updated. It's a disappointment if it's true that AC Delco no longer manufactures their own filters and is using the cheap Champion Ecore design.

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil....html#champion

08blackHHRSS

Been using K&N oil filters since the first oil change (2nd one was 15% ago) Yup, they are more $$ than most of the others out there, but i tend to go with what i feel is better in the oil related areas (and gas,and other stuff like that LOL)
Are the K&N filters better than the others? Probably. Only based on what i read here is how i came to that conclusion,pretty much.

I agree with what was said about the "name brands" going cheap as they can. And like a lot of other things, you will see/find out that it is one of those " A small number of places make the majority of (filters in this case)

A co-worker swore by Honda oil/air filters for his car,even when the dealership's parts guy told him Honda has "whoever"(Fram possibly?) make them for Honda. It was when my coworker saw "Fram" on a Honda filter box, or part #'s were the same,or some kind of proof, that he finally accepted the truth.

One more related story: a friend of mine needed a alternator for a Chrysler product he had,went to the dealership and got some crazy high price for a rebuilt w/a Chrysler sticker/badging on the box. He did a lil research, located a independant rebuilder , got one from them for a 1/3 of what the stealership quoted. The box looked familiar so he went back to the dealership,had them bring out the alternator he said he "needed", peeled back the Chrysler sticker on the box, and the independant rebuilder's own sticker was underneath .

What i'm getting at, with a lil homework/legwork you will find out a few things, usually in your favor.

405HP_Z06

I completely disagree, consistent UOA's with the CORRECT interpretation WILL tell you the quality and filtering efficiency of an oil filter along with characteristics of the oil. Filters are a delicate balance between filtering efficiency, filtering effectiveness, and flow. A crappy filter will ruin a good UOA every time.

I will agree that the Purolater Pure One is a highly efficient filter, but horribly ineffective due to the low flow characteristics. It doesn't matter how good the filter cartridge is if the filter is constantly bypassing.

I don't use Mobil 1 oil or filters, neither are in my top 5, and I do my own maintenance so I don't have to listen to the 'quick lube' upsale BS. I choose and use products based on technical merit, cost, and effectiveness not what a product manufacturer or reseller says about their 'product of the week'.

405HP_Z06

Come on Snoopy, you can't make the statement above and the statement below. Practice what you preach!!!!!!!! What makes you believe this is correct? I'd take any good data you have as a basis, it doesn't have to be what you state above. Basing an oil purchasing decision purely on cost is just plain stupid.

Concerning manufacturer requirements, what exactly were the requirements for the LNF engine? What were the manufacturers goals when they established the requirements? Are these goals consistent with everyone else's goals?

mistermike

I certainly agree that a bad filter could degrade a UOA, but a good filter can't fix a UOA caused by oil problems. There are so many variables with this approach that I couldn't concieve of how you could sort out the data in a meaningful way.

I would be very interested to see examples of Pure One filters and premature bypass opening or degraded flow. My searches, including BITOG, haven't turned up anything yet. I found references that suggest there is one poster at BITOG who feels strongly about this, but links to a supposed flow rate test appear to be broken.

I am certainly open to tests, but so far I have only been able to turn up anecdotal opinions based on the perceived density of the filter medium.

405HP_Z06

Agree.

If you use Dyson Analysis for qualified UOA interpretation it's much easier. This is a case where you get what you pay for.

I've personally never used the Purolator Pure One because I was advised by Dyson Analysis to use a different filter. In this case, unless you pay for the answer, anecdotal opinion is all your going to get. Quantifying this type of data isn't cheap and those that have are not giving it away for free. I'll say that I will NOT use a Purolater Pure One based on the information I've paid for from the last 7 years of Dyson UOA's.