cturboaddict

First thing, thanks for the help....

My wife's 09 HHR has approx 37,000 miles on it. About a month ago, the key had gotten stuck in the ignition leaving the car running. After calling the dealership while it idled in the driveway (they are 1 min down the road), they said we would have to yank the fuses yada yada and wait till monday to drop it off (it was a saturday afternoon). We drove it over there and pulled it into the bay, and had a salesman yank the fuel pump fuse and set us up with a rental while we waited for Monday. Needless to say, I pointed out to the salesman that it was going to kill the battery. Anyhow, they said it was a recall and fixed it and we got the car back that monday.

Now~~
Ever since the car was returned, we have noticed that after driving it the cooling fan will continue to run for a while after shutting the car off. It happens almost every single time the car is driven.
Today, my wife was running late home from work and we had to run and do a few errands. One of those errands was to stop and pickup some food for ourselves and the kids at a local fast food drive thru.
When we got in the drive-thru we were waiting in line, and I noticed an awkward patterned vibration repeating itself. I asked her what that was, and she told me she had no idea. I told her that it wasn't normal.
We ended up waiting in line for approx 15min in the drive-thru and when we got up to get our food the high temp light kicked on and we had seen the car was overheating.

I kicked on the heat and blasted it to start to cool the car down. It was at approx 240degrees per her dash readout. It dropped down to 215 with the heat on, and we headed home. Once on the road, it cooled down to 200 with the heater blasting and when we got home I noticed that I didn't hear the cooling fan. We popped the hood to let it cool a bit.

Grabbed a flashlight and noticed the resivoir wasn't full of dexcool? Popped the top off of the under hood fuse box and located the cooling fan relay. I told her to start it up and I popped the coolant cap to see dexcool flowing. slowly. I put the cap on and let the car warm up to 200 degrees idling. Still no fan? Let it run to 210 and no fan kicked on.

So, assuming my fan is the issue and the possible lack of coolant being a concern.... I'm going to pickup a new relay and jug of dexcool before she heads out to work.

Anyone else have a suggestion on what it might be? Or something else to check? I'm not sure if there are any other fuses that I should look for, or where the temp sensor/sender is located for the fan???

Thanks again,

donbrew

To start with, newer cars are different. Turn the A/C on to get more cooling going, that turns the cooling fan on (assuming the cooling fan works).

Under normal conditions the fan does not come on until about 220F then stays on until about 186F. It is always on if the A/C is on. Check the fan operation.

There is indeed a major problem if the reservoir is empty when the engine is hot. There should always be some in there, more when hot than when cold.

When the engine is cold, open the pressure cap. The hose should be full to the top. If it's not put 50/50 DexCool in it, then half fill the reservoir bottle. Mark the level with a sharpie. Run the car normal for 10 or 15 miles with the DIC set to coolant temp, watching for over 221F.

It is not unheard of that the fan relay goes bad. I am thinking maybe somebody messed with some fuses and relays that they should not have. There is a diagram on the inside of the fuse box cover.

843de

First a little background on how the cooling fan in an HHR operates...

"The engine cooling fan system consists of one cooling fan and one relay. The relay is powered by the battery positive voltage circuit and controlled by a switched ground from the engine control module (ECM).

During operation, the ECM supplies the ground path for the cooling fan relay through the cooling fan relay control circuit. This energizes the cooling fan relay coil, closes the relay contacts, and supplies battery positive voltage from the cooling fan fuse through the cooling fan motor supply voltage circuit to the cooling fan. The cooling fan motor is grounded through its own ground circuit.

The ECM commands the fan on under the following conditions:

• Engine coolant temperature exceeds approximately 106°C (223°F).

• A/C refrigerant pressure exceeds 1302 kPa (189 psi).

• A/C is requested and vehicle speed is below 100 km/h (62 mph) with A/C pressure above 1413 kPa (205 psi).

• AF23-5 Transmission fluid temperature exceeds 130°C (266°F).

• VT25-E Transmission fluid temperature exceeds 140°C (284°F).

• When the engine coolant temperature exceeds 125°C (257°F) at key off, the fan will run for up to 108 seconds.

The ECM commands the fan off under the following conditions:

• Engine coolant temperature drops below approximately 125°C (257°F).

• Throttle position is greater than 95 percent.

• Vehicle speed exceeds 113 km/h (70 mph)"

So when it has been running after shut down, the engine has probably been over 223 degrees and it's running to bring the coolant temp down.

The low coolant level is of great concern, and it sounds like it has been that way for a while.

Obviously you need to replenish the missing coolant, but then you need to determine where the coolant was lost in the first place, check for obvious leaks and check the dipstick for a milky buildup.

blacky

Put the relay back and see if the fan kicks in on AC. If so, I think the relay is ok.

Somebody with direct experience on this may want to chime in.

donbrew

"When the engine coolant temperature exceeds 125°C (257°F) at key off, the fan will run for up to 108 seconds. "

I think that might be one of their typos, mine sometimes runs after shut down when the temp is 221F or so. The other day I notice that in one column of numbers they translated
46 N.m. to 34 lb.ft and 37 lb.ft. Helm does not have good proof readers.

cturboaddict

Thanks for the great responses.... and quick too!!

So taking your advice, I went outside and did this...
Ambient air temp is approx 70degrees.

Started car with hood open. Let run for a min (approx 154degrees on DIC)
Pushed AC on. Fan kicked on.

Pushed AC off. Fan continued for a bit.
Shut off car and restarted. Fan was off. Let run for a few minutes.
Temp reached approx 220 degrees and fan kicked on on its own.

Car has ran for approx 8min now at 225degrees with fan running.
At approx 10-12 min its now at 230degrees with the fan running.

Shut down car and fan continued to run after shut down.

So, in conclusion~
I think I'm safe to say the fan and operating system are in working order. As far as the coolant level, I'm unsure for how long it has been that way. I'll top it off tomorrow and use the sharpie before she heads into work to see what happens.

The first thing I had checked was the oil, and there were no signs of milk from what I had seen. I was also using an LED flashlight that tends to brighten everything beyond belief. So I'll check again in the morning. I always do the oil changes on our vehicles, and have never noticed any milk or water/coolant intrusion by any means as of yet.

I'll post back results tomorrow evening. Thank you for all of your information and saving me from buying a useless relay. (possibly me tapping on the relay might have jarred something?)

firemangeorge

Try swapping the relay with another from the fuse box. Just make sure they are the same size. Some non-essential relay such as: widshield wipers,etc. should work.
This way you can determine if the cooling fan relay is indeed bad.
Also, there should be a fuse for the cooling fan in addition to the relay. Make sure to check both.

As far as the missing coolant. Like the suggestions above, you need to find out where it's going.

blacky

[QUOTE=cturboaddict;716813]Thanks for the great responses.... and quick too!!

So, in conclusion~
I think I'm safe to say the fan and operating system are in working order. As far as the coolant level, I'm unsure for how long it has been that way. I'll top it off tomorrow and use the sharpie before she heads into work to see what happens.///

Since you already verified that the engine was filled with coolant, that isn't a worry.

2007 2.4 l consumes coolant. I have no idea where it goes. I'm sure the overflow tank would have gone dry at least once or twice over had I not brought the level back up. I siphon the overflow tank dry once a year, and fill with fresh 50/50 DEXCOOL/distilled water.

db/sb

You have a problem too then. We owned ours for over 6 years and never saw anything like that and I don't see it on the kids HHRs either.

cturboaddict

So grabbed some 50/50 dex this morning.

Took about 3 quarts to top the motor off at cold along with half of the resivoir. We will see~~