GMS1 Issues
01-16-2012 | 05:50 PM
#11
Senior Member
Joined: 04-03-2009
Posts: 707
From: atlanta, ga
No the GM Tubo Upgrade will not adjust down.
The main issue I think involved is GM could only fit a older transaxle to this vehicle standard and Auto. The fact is they were made back when numbers like these were unheard of. To fit the 6 speed would have taken a redo of the floor and firewall that would require all new crash testing etc for a vehicle that was going out of production soon.
For the most the power is there when you want it. If you want full boost all the time take it to a tuner and save some money for a broken driveline.
You have to remember the SS was done when GM was hurting for money like there was no tomarrow. The new cars now all have the better tranny and will get even better stuff soon. You have not really seen much of what is coming yet. The base 2.5 4 cylinder will be 200 HP the Turbos are already at 270 HP and I expect 300 HP is not far off. I also expect a 400 pluse HP turbo V6 soon.
But the bottom line to the HHR SS weakness is the tranny. Torque managment is the name of the game for most of the cars that had the older tranny. Note my GTP was limited to 260 HP and the GTP also had limits due to the 4 speed auto. The new 6 speed auto is now in the Impala as they had the money to replace it and it now has a 300 HP V6 in it. It's not even an SS it is just the only V6 they offer.
The GTP guys used to convert their drag GTPs to the Cadillac tranny. It would take more but again they had to cust the floor and firewall to make it fit.
The cars are more thought out than most owners ever could imagine. That is why most do not understand what and why they do what they do. GM lifted power at shift points to protect the tranny. They also cut power if it builds too much from a stop.
The fact is the engine is just better than the tranny was. It is now out of production and no longer an issue. The 6 speed is sweet and in the new ATS Cadillac the 2.0 Turbo will really show what it really can do. GM also has a 7 speed coming too but I do not know if it will make it to this engine or is even needed.
The main issue I think involved is GM could only fit a older transaxle to this vehicle standard and Auto. The fact is they were made back when numbers like these were unheard of. To fit the 6 speed would have taken a redo of the floor and firewall that would require all new crash testing etc for a vehicle that was going out of production soon.
For the most the power is there when you want it. If you want full boost all the time take it to a tuner and save some money for a broken driveline.
You have to remember the SS was done when GM was hurting for money like there was no tomarrow. The new cars now all have the better tranny and will get even better stuff soon. You have not really seen much of what is coming yet. The base 2.5 4 cylinder will be 200 HP the Turbos are already at 270 HP and I expect 300 HP is not far off. I also expect a 400 pluse HP turbo V6 soon.
But the bottom line to the HHR SS weakness is the tranny. Torque managment is the name of the game for most of the cars that had the older tranny. Note my GTP was limited to 260 HP and the GTP also had limits due to the 4 speed auto. The new 6 speed auto is now in the Impala as they had the money to replace it and it now has a 300 HP V6 in it. It's not even an SS it is just the only V6 they offer.
The GTP guys used to convert their drag GTPs to the Cadillac tranny. It would take more but again they had to cust the floor and firewall to make it fit.
The cars are more thought out than most owners ever could imagine. That is why most do not understand what and why they do what they do. GM lifted power at shift points to protect the tranny. They also cut power if it builds too much from a stop.
The fact is the engine is just better than the tranny was. It is now out of production and no longer an issue. The 6 speed is sweet and in the new ATS Cadillac the 2.0 Turbo will really show what it really can do. GM also has a 7 speed coming too but I do not know if it will make it to this engine or is even needed.
01-16-2012 | 07:33 PM
#12
Senior Member
Joined: 11-08-2009
Posts: 220
From: Los Angeles, Dallas, New York
Every time someone mentions that they have a problem with the HHR, we hear the excuse that GM had no money. Hmnmnm, last time I looked their advertising didn't say, Buy at your own risk, we're broke".
But it all boils down to this. Me and a whole bunch of other people paid close to a grand to get a GM sold and certified part that really doesn't work reliably. Then because of this we spend tons of hours, and twice the money doing things like moving radiators, having wires soldered, changing motor mounts all to still have something that still isn't reliable.
Personally, I'm a little fed up with excuses, especially from people in the "industry" that that say don't worry the new Cadillac is going to be better than the HHR. I guess so, but my EVO is twice as robust as the HHR SS with zero problems and not a whole lot of difference in original money.
In fact I first leased my EVO for three years, bought it off the lease for 20 grand and today it's still worth $21,900. What do you think the SS is going to be worth when it's 5 years old, but oh yea I forgot it's a torque management thing.
All I want to know is what's the problem, how do we fix it. Period. End of story.
JR
01-16-2012 | 08:06 PM
#13
Senior Member
Joined: 04-03-2009
Posts: 707
From: atlanta, ga
Thank You.
Every time someone mentions that they have a problem with the HHR, we hear the excuse that GM had no money. Hmnmnm, last time I looked their advertising didn't say, Buy at your own risk, we're broke".
But it all boils down to this. Me and a whole bunch of other people paid close to a grand to get a GM sold and certified part that really doesn't work reliably. Then because of this we spend tons of hours, and twice the money doing things like moving radiators, having wires soldered, changing motor mounts all to still have something that still isn't reliable.
Personally, I'm a little fed up with excuses, especially from people in the "industry" that that say don't worry the new Cadillac is going to be better than the HHR. I guess so, but my EVO is twice as robust as the HHR SS with zero problems and not a whole lot of difference in original money.
In fact I first leased my EVO for three years, bought it off the lease for 20 grand and today it's still worth $21,900. What do you think the SS is going to be worth when it's 5 years old, but oh yea I forgot it's a torque management thing.
All I want to know is what's the problem, how do we fix it. Period. End of story.
JR
Every time someone mentions that they have a problem with the HHR, we hear the excuse that GM had no money. Hmnmnm, last time I looked their advertising didn't say, Buy at your own risk, we're broke".
But it all boils down to this. Me and a whole bunch of other people paid close to a grand to get a GM sold and certified part that really doesn't work reliably. Then because of this we spend tons of hours, and twice the money doing things like moving radiators, having wires soldered, changing motor mounts all to still have something that still isn't reliable.
Personally, I'm a little fed up with excuses, especially from people in the "industry" that that say don't worry the new Cadillac is going to be better than the HHR. I guess so, but my EVO is twice as robust as the HHR SS with zero problems and not a whole lot of difference in original money.
In fact I first leased my EVO for three years, bought it off the lease for 20 grand and today it's still worth $21,900. What do you think the SS is going to be worth when it's 5 years old, but oh yea I forgot it's a torque management thing.
All I want to know is what's the problem, how do we fix it. Period. End of story.
JR
01-17-2012 | 05:59 AM
#14
Senior Member
Joined: 11-08-2009
Posts: 220
From: Los Angeles, Dallas, New York
I think this is important if you plan to go forward with any General Motors product in the future.
Chevrolet has a systemic problem with this car and it's not just the people that post on this forum. Though there are few of these vehicles, it doesn't take a lot of searching (on or past the internet) to hear all of the problems, especially from the lnf upgrade.
I own 4 chevrolets, two are overly computer managed (the HHR SS and the Impala SS) one is more stable and robust (a trailblazer SS), the fourth is slightly older and doesn't have much computer management.
But regardless of what I own, when you buy a performance vehicle, regardless of the initial price, you do expect to push the peddle down and go forward as quickly as the car is capable.
I don't care about hearing that GM couldn't build, or fit a robust transmission to handle the power, that GM was hurting for money, or that GM now can make a better car that cost 75% more.
That's lame and doesn't address what I and others have mentioned or paid for. It's easy to say this is a dead platform . . . game over, but that doesn't sit well for people that have relatively new vehicles and are pretty much left on their own as to what to do.
Heck, my chevrolet dealer that installed the gm upgrade now sells Infiniti and the dealer that took their geographical spot hasn't heard of the hhr ss, much less the upgrade.
That is why I bring up the comparison between the EVO VIII I own and the HHR SS. In ways they are very similar cars. They both are started life as economy cars, they both have factory upgrades to make them faster and more sporting, they both had the same initial new buy in price.
Both Mitsubishi and Chevrolet had profit and sales issues during the recession, so lack of money isn't (to me) a very good excuse.
The difference is the EVO is solid and robust. I never question it will start, run, corner, brake, It's never required an extra brake booster, or personal out of pocket modifications to fix what was never done right in the first place.
The other difference is there is an aftermarket network 100x the size of the lnf and hhr ss suppliers. Even my local dealer can upgrade my EVO to 400 whp and offer a warranty.
So going forward, I like the HHR, would like to keep it and probably will if the issues are fixed or addressed.
If they're not, I'll look for another fast hatchback, probably a Subaru STI as it has essentially the same cargo space as the HHR SS.
It's more expensive, even used, but the reputation is solid and the dealers know that they actually sell and have sold that particular car and by all accounts they service their product well.
JR
Chevrolet has a systemic problem with this car and it's not just the people that post on this forum. Though there are few of these vehicles, it doesn't take a lot of searching (on or past the internet) to hear all of the problems, especially from the lnf upgrade.
I own 4 chevrolets, two are overly computer managed (the HHR SS and the Impala SS) one is more stable and robust (a trailblazer SS), the fourth is slightly older and doesn't have much computer management.
But regardless of what I own, when you buy a performance vehicle, regardless of the initial price, you do expect to push the peddle down and go forward as quickly as the car is capable.
I don't care about hearing that GM couldn't build, or fit a robust transmission to handle the power, that GM was hurting for money, or that GM now can make a better car that cost 75% more.
That's lame and doesn't address what I and others have mentioned or paid for. It's easy to say this is a dead platform . . . game over, but that doesn't sit well for people that have relatively new vehicles and are pretty much left on their own as to what to do.
Heck, my chevrolet dealer that installed the gm upgrade now sells Infiniti and the dealer that took their geographical spot hasn't heard of the hhr ss, much less the upgrade.
That is why I bring up the comparison between the EVO VIII I own and the HHR SS. In ways they are very similar cars. They both are started life as economy cars, they both have factory upgrades to make them faster and more sporting, they both had the same initial new buy in price.
Both Mitsubishi and Chevrolet had profit and sales issues during the recession, so lack of money isn't (to me) a very good excuse.
The difference is the EVO is solid and robust. I never question it will start, run, corner, brake, It's never required an extra brake booster, or personal out of pocket modifications to fix what was never done right in the first place.
The other difference is there is an aftermarket network 100x the size of the lnf and hhr ss suppliers. Even my local dealer can upgrade my EVO to 400 whp and offer a warranty.
So going forward, I like the HHR, would like to keep it and probably will if the issues are fixed or addressed.
If they're not, I'll look for another fast hatchback, probably a Subaru STI as it has essentially the same cargo space as the HHR SS.
It's more expensive, even used, but the reputation is solid and the dealers know that they actually sell and have sold that particular car and by all accounts they service their product well.
JR
01-17-2012 | 06:08 AM
#15
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
I think this is important if you plan to go forward with any General Motors product in the future.
I own 4 chevrolets, two are overly computer managed (the HHR SS and the Impala SS) one is more stable and robust (a trailblazer SS), the fourth is slightly older and doesn't have much computer management.
But regardless of what I own, when you buy a performance vehicle, regardless of the initial price, you do expect to push the peddle down and go forward as quickly as the car is capable.
I don't care about hearing that GM couldn't build, or fit a robust transmission to handle the power, that GM was hurting for money, or that GM now can make a better car that cost 75% more.
That's lame and doesn't address what I and others have mentioned or paid for. It's easy to say this is a dead platform . . . game over, but that doesn't sit well for people that have relatively new vehicles and are pretty much left on their own as to what to do.
Heck, my chevrolet dealer that installed the gm upgrade now sells Infiniti and the dealer that took their geographical spot hasn't heard of the hhr ss, much less the upgrade.
That is why I bring up the comparison between the EVO VIII I own and the HHR SS. In ways they are very similar cars. They both are started life as economy cars, they both have factory upgrades to make them faster and more sporting, they both had the same initial new buy in price.
Both Mitsubishi and Chevrolet had profit and sales issues during the recession, so lack of money isn't (to me) a very good excuse.
The difference is the EVO is solid and robust. I never question it will start, run, corner, brake, It's never required an extra brake booster, or personal out of pocket modifications to fix what was never done right in the first place.
The other difference is there is an aftermarket network 100x the size of the lnf and hhr ss suppliers. Even my local dealer can upgrade my EVO to 400 whp and offer a warranty.
So going forward, I like the HHR, would like to keep it and probably will if the issues are fixed or addressed.
If they're not, I'll look for another fast hatchback, probably a Subaru STI as it has essentially the same cargo space as the HHR SS.
It's more expensive, even used, but the reputation is solid and the dealers know that they actually sell and have sold that particular car and by all accounts they service their product well.
JR
I own 4 chevrolets, two are overly computer managed (the HHR SS and the Impala SS) one is more stable and robust (a trailblazer SS), the fourth is slightly older and doesn't have much computer management.
But regardless of what I own, when you buy a performance vehicle, regardless of the initial price, you do expect to push the peddle down and go forward as quickly as the car is capable.
I don't care about hearing that GM couldn't build, or fit a robust transmission to handle the power, that GM was hurting for money, or that GM now can make a better car that cost 75% more.
That's lame and doesn't address what I and others have mentioned or paid for. It's easy to say this is a dead platform . . . game over, but that doesn't sit well for people that have relatively new vehicles and are pretty much left on their own as to what to do.
Heck, my chevrolet dealer that installed the gm upgrade now sells Infiniti and the dealer that took their geographical spot hasn't heard of the hhr ss, much less the upgrade.
That is why I bring up the comparison between the EVO VIII I own and the HHR SS. In ways they are very similar cars. They both are started life as economy cars, they both have factory upgrades to make them faster and more sporting, they both had the same initial new buy in price.
Both Mitsubishi and Chevrolet had profit and sales issues during the recession, so lack of money isn't (to me) a very good excuse.
The difference is the EVO is solid and robust. I never question it will start, run, corner, brake, It's never required an extra brake booster, or personal out of pocket modifications to fix what was never done right in the first place.
The other difference is there is an aftermarket network 100x the size of the lnf and hhr ss suppliers. Even my local dealer can upgrade my EVO to 400 whp and offer a warranty.
So going forward, I like the HHR, would like to keep it and probably will if the issues are fixed or addressed.
If they're not, I'll look for another fast hatchback, probably a Subaru STI as it has essentially the same cargo space as the HHR SS.
It's more expensive, even used, but the reputation is solid and the dealers know that they actually sell and have sold that particular car and by all accounts they service their product well.
JR
The fact is while the vehilcle is dead the engine is living on and expanding to other cars with a new transmission and less managment.
Mitu had no where near the issues GM had and the mess internally.
You may want to sell as at this point you will never be happy and you for some reason never can find a good dealer in your area.
01-17-2012 | 06:11 AM
#16
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
Just depends on what the issue or expectation is.
Many read here and often state they have boost issues when they really just don't understand. While these guys may have issues others don't and just don't understand what is normal in this car.
01-17-2012 | 11:46 AM
#17
Thread Starter
New Member
Joined: 11-26-2011
Posts: 17
From: California
So just to clarify. From a stop mash teh throttle. 22-23 psi through first second and then once in third I only get about 15 psi. So what you are sayting ist aht this is tourque managment? If that is the case GM has been advertising false information because there is no way @ 15psi that the car is making the 290hp as claimed. I highly doubt you are only to get the full HP out of 1st and 2nd gear.
So if I ran this thing on the dyno right now they would dyno it in fourth gear. That would be at 15 psi. I would bnot get the claimed HP.
Who eles has an Auto HHR with GMS1. What are you seeing for boost in 3rd and fourth?
Thanks,
ERic
So if I ran this thing on the dyno right now they would dyno it in fourth gear. That would be at 15 psi. I would bnot get the claimed HP.
Who eles has an Auto HHR with GMS1. What are you seeing for boost in 3rd and fourth?
Thanks,
ERic
01-17-2012 | 12:51 PM
#18
Senior Member
Joined: 11-08-2009
Posts: 220
From: Los Angeles, Dallas, New York
Sorry they are not excused just the reality of what is going on. GM was broke and had to work with what they had. Sorry that is all it is and was.
The fact is while the vehilcle is dead the engine is living on and expanding to other cars with a new transmission and less managment.
Mitu had no where near the issues GM had and the mess internally.
You may want to sell as at this point you will never be happy and you for some reason never can find a good dealer in your area.
The fact is while the vehilcle is dead the engine is living on and expanding to other cars with a new transmission and less managment.
Mitu had no where near the issues GM had and the mess internally.
You may want to sell as at this point you will never be happy and you for some reason never can find a good dealer in your area.
You and I seem to have a philosophical difference in the way we view this.
I see it as it's Chevrolet as the seller and me as the buyer's responsibility to get this right before I sell the car and turn the problem over to someone else, who probably would know less about this issue and really doesn't deserve to be tricked.
The "it's not my fault" attitude is what gets companies in trouble in the first place.
I also see this as GM advertised and sold a product and it should either deliver or be returned to stock. The car should be as good as it was before I started this process or taken back to where it' was reliable.
Even the most marginal of retail stores would understand this concept.
I know I do, as i run my own businesses and to have the fortunate success I've enjoyed I've had to stand behind our product and services, even when it is uncomfortable.
I will get this sorted, whether it's on my own dime or not and then make a decision whether to keep it or sell it.
Now, in your view of wait and see what GM comes out with in the future . . . you know the old saying, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice . . . .
JR
01-17-2012 | 05:00 PM
#19
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
So just to clarify. From a stop mash teh throttle. 22-23 psi through first second and then once in third I only get about 15 psi. So what you are sayting ist aht this is tourque managment? If that is the case GM has been advertising false information because there is no way @ 15psi that the car is making the 290hp as claimed. I highly doubt you are only to get the full HP out of 1st and 2nd gear.
So if I ran this thing on the dyno right now they would dyno it in fourth gear. That would be at 15 psi. I would bnot get the claimed HP.
Who eles has an Auto HHR with GMS1. What are you seeing for boost in 3rd and fourth?
Thanks,
ERic
So if I ran this thing on the dyno right now they would dyno it in fourth gear. That would be at 15 psi. I would bnot get the claimed HP.
Who eles has an Auto HHR with GMS1. What are you seeing for boost in 3rd and fourth?
Thanks,
ERic
There are a lot of factors as to how much boost and when. The fact is you will lose a clutch or tranny if there was no managment as this transaxle was made when 300 HP 4 cylinders were never even though of. It also is why the 4 speed autos were killed right after GM got the money to go all to the Six speed tranny.
Near the end the HHR life was debated and it died not long after the tranny was killed. GM saw no interest in reconstructing the HHR to adapt the new tranny for only a year or two more. The Cobalt going away remove the greatest demand for this tranny and now that they only sell around 60,000 HHRs it was not economical to keep around.
As it is cars like the WRX and others have AWD and can put the power down. The FWD on the HHR would mostly just spin the tires as the front tires unload when you hit the gas and the weight goes to the rear. The HHR is traction limited.
I have hit the gas at 55 MPH and caught more than 17 PSI at times. If there is a salt on the road or if it is a little damp it will spin the tires at neat 60 MPH.
Companied need to also idiot proof cars too. The new Mustang V6 can do 140 MPH with the speed limiter off. Ford puts it on as they use an aluminum driveshaft to get more MPG. If you run the aluminum shaft past 112 MPH it will break and can tear a hole in the floor. I saw the video of a guy doing just this. He did not get any warranty coverage on this one.
01-17-2012 | 05:15 PM
#20
Senior Member
Joined: 07-05-2008
Posts: 5,464
From: Akron Ohio
You and I seem to have a philosophical difference in the way we view this.
I see it as it's Chevrolet as the seller and me as the buyer's responsibility to get this right before I sell the car and turn the problem over to someone else, who probably would know less about this issue and really doesn't deserve to be tricked.
The "it's not my fault" attitude is what gets companies in trouble in the first place.
I also see this as GM advertised and sold a product and it should either deliver or be returned to stock. The car should be as good as it was before I started this process or taken back to where it' was reliable.
Even the most marginal of retail stores would understand this concept.
I know I do, as i run my own businesses and to have the fortunate success I've enjoyed I've had to stand behind our product and services, even when it is uncomfortable.
I will get this sorted, whether it's on my own dime or not and then make a decision whether to keep it or sell it.
Now, in your view of wait and see what GM comes out with in the future . . . you know the old saying, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice . . . .
JR
I see it as it's Chevrolet as the seller and me as the buyer's responsibility to get this right before I sell the car and turn the problem over to someone else, who probably would know less about this issue and really doesn't deserve to be tricked.
The "it's not my fault" attitude is what gets companies in trouble in the first place.
I also see this as GM advertised and sold a product and it should either deliver or be returned to stock. The car should be as good as it was before I started this process or taken back to where it' was reliable.
Even the most marginal of retail stores would understand this concept.
I know I do, as i run my own businesses and to have the fortunate success I've enjoyed I've had to stand behind our product and services, even when it is uncomfortable.
I will get this sorted, whether it's on my own dime or not and then make a decision whether to keep it or sell it.
Now, in your view of wait and see what GM comes out with in the future . . . you know the old saying, fool me once shame on me, fool me twice . . . .
JR
I too had an issue too. But I spent less time complaining on the web and more time working with my dealer who had a trained turbo guy. I contacted GMPD and got help from them. I also spent some time under the car to figure out what was wrong.
I am sorry you had an issue and your dealers suck. I also understand your aggrivation.
As of now the future of GM is much different and I know some insiders on what is going on now at GM. You think you were frustrated with GM you should have been an engineer inside trying to do the cars right only to get the rug pulled out from under you. Today they are all excited as they are now funded to do things right and are empowered to do what they can to make the cars right. This is something many of them were never given before.
You can hate the future product you have not seen or have any idea on yet but I would recomend you keep an open mind. The new ATS is the first of the new GM and we will see more of what they can really do in more new models you have not even seen or heard off. I think you will be suprised.
So while I understand you point you need to consider I base my view on things most have no idea are coming. There will be no more 4000 pound Camaros in just a couple years. It will be closer to 3250-3400 that is just a hint of what they will be doing and how they will get it right for once.
Dealers should also be dealing with the HHR SS engine better soon. The fact is the 2.0 is going to be as common as small block Chevys. There are already more of them in Buicks than in all the Cobalts and HHRs made. It will be in many Chevys, Cadillacs and Buicks. The dealers will get the training they need to deal with them.
The GM turn around is not going to happen overnight but it is in motion. The next 5 years a lot is going to happen.
Your glass is hald empty base on experience and mine is half full based on what I know is going on.
I understood the state of GM in 2008 and that the HHR was not a perfect vehicle when I bought it. But all MFG's go throught this kind of time. It was long ago Hyundai was right up there with Yugo in quailty. Same with Ford and even Mitsubishi. I can remember the rusted out hulks of the Mitsu on the roads and failed engine not that long ago. Most work throught these things and the larger they are and deeper the issue the more work it takes.
I would recomend the Lutz book Car Guys vs Bean Counters. It is not an excuse book. It is a upfront book that points out just what he found when he arrived and what he had to fight to change. After reading the book I feel he did it to support those who are continuing the change he helped start. GM has many of the best people in the industry working for them but many of them were restricted by rules, accounting, lack of funds and policies that did not let them do the job they could. Today the people left in place to continue this are still pressing on. Many of the present new cars are just things that were started before the money came in. Today they are working on thing started after the money. These cars yet to come will show that things are now different.
The sad part is there will be a lingering issue with the cars pre Chapter 11 and their owner also the fall out from those who were Pontiac fans etc.